"HORSE WITH NO NAME" america
Well the horse has a name "Sherman" seems Painesville Police have hired a female officer that owns a horse. The horse will be at future Painesville events, so I guess we now have a Mounted Unit. Insurance for the horse will be covered by the officer and the city.
The head of the road department Brian Belfiore claims the "cold patch" of filling chuckholes is pretty much a waste of time? Yet we have two crews working 12 hours a day to waste tons of "cold patch". When asked by a council person if there were any new methods, the claim was made that yes but it's to expensive?
As far as the last power outage again First Energy's fault. What the people learned at the meeting that well, We are presently at the mercy of First Energy. We don't produce power presently in Painesville.
First Energy goes down so do we.
Forget the "warm start program" but if you buy a new gas fired generator we might get your power on sooner. Why not we spend money down at the Electric Museum likes its going out of style.
When asked about the congestive costs of power going from $21,000 last January to $150,000 this January Mr. McHugh used the analogy of a Turnpike Commission. Claiming as more people want to use your roads the price goes up? No the price is set what drives up revenue is more traffic. He also claimed this was not the fault of AMP-OHIO. Yes it is they got us into this screwy deal in the first place
A presentation was made by NRP with cooperation from Western Reserve Community Developers of Painesville. To build Senior living Center in Shamrock Park. Look I like old people I am one, but for the most part retired people pay very little income tax, plus since the building will be owned by a non-profit so no property tax. How will Painesville afford another senior living center? We already have three in the city?
When I asked the administration as well as council if the city planning commission or administration shared any responsibility over the current Heisley Park CSX mess. All I got was silence.
Ordinance 1373.04 was over if rental property needed to be registered yearly or every three years. It's three years.
This ones for Kathy Sak;
On a final note there were no minutes to the last council meeting?
posted by terminator1 @ 7:25 AM
44 Comments
44 Comments:
Ohio's Open Meetings Act requires minutes to be taken. If there are really no minutes, you would file an injunctive action at Common Pleas Court. The court could then compel them to obey the Ohio Open Meetings Act, pay a $500 fine plus costs. Any member of a public body who fails to comply with the court injunction could be removed from office. Any action taken by council that night is invalid if there are no minutes. Before you march over to the courthouse (county) talk to the legal rep. for city council.
8:30 I knew you would have the answer. That's the first time that I have seen that.
See the old Pizza Parlor has come down. wonder why?
Several years ago, Council approved the purchase of a gas fired generator by our Electric Division so that we could cold start the boilers.
Against the wishes of the Electric Superintendent, CM Rita McMahon allowed the generator to be installed at the Pollution Control Plant! She claimed it could serve both Plants. Untrue.
Now Mr McHughs want to buy another gas fired generator? I hope Council asked where it will be located and in fact will it serve it's original purpose.
Even when the lights are on we are stumbling around in the dark,
It seems council was running a dog and pony show without the dog?
Oh...where to start...sheeesh.
First, his name is McHugh, not McHughs, unless of course you're seeing double, in which you might be able to make a case for plurality. You often mention being respectful to others, but you don‘t even bother to get his name right?
Second, its a diesel generator, not gas. It was placed at WPCP because it would keep them online in the event we had an incident like what FE caused. In addition to placing it at the Electric Plant would have invoked more epa regulations just by its being there. Remember, your beloved POTUS promised to bankrupt the coal industry. (Which btw is why Prarie State became so expensive - any argument to the contrary is just plain ignorant.)
And third - congestive costs are just that. Transmission authorities charge more to a company that is sending its power out of their service area. And they also charge more to allow you to import your power into their area. To get Prarie State power to Painesville, it passes through two transmission authorities. MISO and PJM. When Painesville first signed onto PS, they were part of MISO. Then, FE decided to go with PJM. So, originally Prarie State power would have originated and delivered within the same transmission authority, and transmission charges would have been relatively small. Now they have to go through two, that both consider it congestion on their lines, and therefore charge accordingly.
Whew...all that said and you'll probably just poop all over it anyway, as you usually do when you don't like what you hear.
I have a good understanding of the power problem as I am married to a person that has a large amount of information about the electrical system in Painesville and know a person that was working both power outages on the First Energy side. On the fact of the generator at the Water Pollution Plant- that is true that the generator would serve both plants! It would have been a good idea IF the outage had been a simple situation.
The problem with the first outage was the First Energy lines were across our lines. There was no way EVER to fix this situation for those North of Rt. 2 until the "high tower" guys arrived. They came from as far away as Toledo. It would have made no difference if we did have the generator at the water pollution plant we could not fire it up and put on the plant for fear of creating a dangerous situation for those working on the down lines. This situation is called "back feeding of the electricity!"
We have been told often by my son to be prepared for emergencies like power outages just as a matter of fact and we didn't! When it got to the 10th hour of being out and cold, we went to Home Depot and got the last gas power generator. It cost about $500.00 and will run our lights, heat, and refrigerator-enough to exist for about 13 hours. We have a friend in Mentor-on-the Lake that also wired a generator several years ago to operate a little easier than ours. My son, who has power outages often, because of living in the country has a generator as well and uses it many times through out the year.
The second outage had added problems so again it wasn't going to be fixed as easy as one thinks.
Next thing we plan to get will be a gas grill so we can cook even if we have to go outside. I heard of people in Perry that had the use of a wood fire place to keep warm and gas stoves to cook.
If I had to suggest anything it would be to put together a plan working with the community to prepare for these long outages. We need a better and larger place to gather. What would happen if people needed to spend the night due to an emergency. What about food for those in the community that needed a hot meal? I would like to see a plan that says-"When a crisis happens for extended hours, this is what is going to happen". I received numerous phone calls on our cell phone so I knew time etc. What about those that didn't get these phone calls. This needs to be corrected. I need to get a radio and more candles as well as simple foods that might not need to be cooked.
I would also vote for trying to find a way to get the power plant to run again. That would be a plus for us! You probably didn't know but former plant employees offered to come in for FREE to start up the plant!
5:30/8:11 Both of you seem very knowledgeable on the operation of our power plant.
I aplogize for the misspelling of Mr. McHugh name, no disrepect was intended.
Mr. McHugh mentioned anothe gas or diesel generator for the power plant. POTUS caused this? First this contract was signed two years before him becoming President. A note here when Peabody Coal opened up the plant for outside purchasers one Michigan private utilility company wanted 10% of the plant. They backed out, along with no private electric utility buying in to the plant, that should have been a tipoff this wasn't a great deal? If it was First Energy, Duke Energy, Ohio Edison might have shown an interest.
City Councils all over the country were told a fear story of no power by 2013,( How did they know who would be President?) and people who were teachers , plumbers, lawyers bought in to the hype. Believing they were protecting there communities.
You have given the best explaination of congestive costs, that said $21,000 to $151,000 seems very high, odd how we can't change a contract but the electric industry can?
AS far as Painesvile the city manager claims that the fire station,and City Hall are not the best place to be used in this situation. The city will work with the Salvation Army for a grant for a generator for there building, which would make a big improvement in situations like we faced during the power outages.
Painesville's #1 asset is it's power plant and it seems that it's value to the administration as well as the community is slipping. What can be done to keep Painesville Power ahead of the curve?
Seems you two have alot to contribute how we might do that.
What happened to the power plant it became a money machine for the administration, the unions everybody but the citizens. We paid for the screw ups waste as well as mistakes.
Seen a familiar face in Monday's council meeting. Mary Hada does she represent Western Reserve Community Development?
I remember you mentioning a chuck hole buster . Cleveland TV station showed one in use. My question if cold patch is a waste of money how can the new process be to expensive? Do some of these people even hear what they tell us.
Mr. McHugh hardly made me feal comfortable if he even knew what he was talking about.
10:16 I guess it's a waste also? Mr. McHugh is an expert in his field, maybe somewhat nervous speaking to a crowd?
10:10 Yes she was. I don't if she has a relationship with Western Reserve or NRP and in support of this project? Either way she is a private citizen.
It's time to retire the old coal burning plant. Our dinosaurer of a plant burns the dirtiest coal mined, we in turn breath the emissions; yes, even with scrubbers. I for one would like this city to get away from all fossil fuel. If you have kids I'm not sure why you would want a plant to keep burning coal or even gas. I am anxious to attend the next LEEDs meeting on the windmill farm slated for Lake Erie. I would like to see council and Mr McHugh think outside the box and close down the old dinosaur. Think of investing in new technology and bring new jobs to Painesville or give current workers the ability to learn new technology and an important part of this community.. I would like to see neighborhoods with "warm houses". I have neighbors who are elderly and don't drive. They will not be able to get to the Salvation Army warming center. They can however walk to a house in the neighborhood. I would love to see the city use their city website to alert residents as to what is going on during power outages or emergencies. We don't have a landline and the cell phone registered was out of town. We do have a WiFi hotspot, allowing us to get on the Internet. Thankfully the local news channels were giving 2-3 hour updates.
I would also like someone to explain why the little old Fairport Yacht Club, just north of the tracks had power at 9:30 am and were able to lead sailing classes all day while the rest of Painesville sat in the dark...... Interesting...
Since we are on the subject of generators what happened to the one Lake East left behind?
1:21 maybe that had something to do with the "issues" at the Painesville Plant OR First Energy took care of their customers first and then when asked by Painesville residents where's my power? They told the Painesville customers your not our customer?
Sandy how do you get on the internet when there is no power . The wifi in a home is now down, and the TV sets are not working either..
Don, I have a verizon WiFi Hotspot. We also have ATT and was surprised the battery in the modem retained power for over 2 hours. I could check updates through my iPad, it allowed me to get on the First energy site and see how many transformers were down and in which areas. They did a good job on their site with time estimations and we could track where the power was coming on. Good Luck. If you have a cell phone plan the hot spot runs an additional $20 a month.
The charge on the Hot Spot lasted over 10 hours and I had not charged it for weeks...... lithium! The iPad was fully charged at 100% and lasted through out the outage. We were able to text and post updates to friends through out the outage.
Sandy/Don remember the information is only as good as it's source.
Facebook and the likes are great but if the past two weeks should have taught us anything, it's to become more self reliant. Wood stoves, generator, gas grills are a great place to start but once your out of gasoline those generators become useless.
Again Fairport Harbor was off what four hours and Painesville twelve? Some issues here.
I don't believe residents are getting the whole story.
What happened to the generator from LakeEast?
Term completely agree! Instead of sitting in the dark it was good to read on the three tv news channels what was going on.
We have a woodstove and a gas stove. I also have a chest freezer which concerns me greatly. I also remember vast power outages when I was kid and my Mom used to run down the basement and throw rugs inside the freezer to insulate it. It worked pretty well. I have a kerosene heater in the stuido and propane heater for the pipes in the basement with an outside exhaust. We were good here. Our neighbors came down, we had hot drinks and popcorn and people checked their email. It worked. We talked about future outages and how we could make it better. We have elderly neighbors we took soup too and offered a warm room. We made it through both outages pretty well. I also have water stored so we can use the plumbing. We don't have a generator and not sure we will get one. I plan on putting a wood stove in the garage next year. I am sick of depending on government and the power grid. We are somewhat prepared for stuff like this. We have an aging water system, aging roads, aging power plant and city council is not able to fix it all. We are going to be better off if we can take care of neighborhoods. What ever we get from the city will be a bonus but I am not waiting for the calvary....
Agree we are not getting the whole story but I'd rather stack wood than try to get to the bottom of the mess we have created!
Sandy, I just wish everyone would tell the truth. First Energy spokesman claimed Painesville Power had "Issues". Painesville department head says consider the source? Well shouldn't I do the same with him?
Look the FACT Fairport Harbor on at 10:00am Painesville on at 7:00pm please explain? In real laymen's terms.
How can I trust anybody who still believes in AMP-OHIO?
Let's face facts we don't generate so we are no longer independent. ( who took you out of the generation business the POTUS or AMP-OHIO who we are now at the mercy of along with First Energy? A Gas generator should be in everybody's future. This bunch will tell us about Facebook, Salvation Army, whatever but why.
Didn't we pass a levy for the roads? My car is taking a beating, especially on Washington and W. Walnut...I guess it will keep our speed down so we can be pulled over by a horse. :)
Any idea what the meeting was Tuesday night with Council and other city officials in attendance? I heard it was in the Senior Citizen Center.
5:28
You are aware that the concrete and asphalt plants are not open at this time of year, aren't you?
There aren't many options right now.
10:11 Interesting then where were those two cement truck I followed going south on Rt.44 doing?
I believe concrete is a 12 month business.
Term,
This is 10:11 and not when I worked in the business.
You don't see I-90 work being done in the winter, right?
The we're interviewing canidates for the civil service comm.
TERM you are correct concrete is year around!!
Sandy, how many neighbors did you keep warm? It must be nice to live where you have nice neighbors. Not sure I want most of the renters who live by me come into my home.
How many rental units and renters have a wifi hot spot? Propane heaters, kerosene heaters, wood stoves and gas stoves?????
I'd be surprised if half of Painesville even had candles.
The Utopia you speak of is long gone from Painesville.
Before Public Works Superintendent Kevin Lynch retired he stood before Council and said asphalt streets need to be repaired with asphalt and cement street must be repaired with concrete, had something to do with expansion and contraction. Mr Lynch said to do otherwise would actually make the situation worst.
Now the new Superintendent tells us he has 2 crews/12 hour shifts putting down cold patch that will only be temporary.
What I don't understand is why we continue to patch Walnut Street with asphalt? Walnut Street is concrete and yes concrete is a 12 month business. Are we making the Walnut situation worst?
6:46 "cold patch is a temporary fix.
I don't know about the rest of Painesville. I do know we have lived here 30+ years and most of our neighbors are the same except for the ones who passed away, those houses sold and new neighbors were welcomed. We still have a block party every summer and get togethers every month. It wasn't always like this. We started a block party a few years ago and found out we had a pretty good time. Now we meet up at least once a month. Over the years we have had our squabbles but it has worked out. I know the rest of Painesville is not like that and I am not so stupid as to think everyone is going to have this situation. It is one of the reasons we decided to stay here, it's our street and neighbors, not the city. We have watched the cemetery deteriorate over the years as well as the roads and other city services. We don't know where we would go where it would be any better. I do like sitting around kitchen tables figuring out a way to make life better for the dozen or so families that do live on this street. I also know it could change, we are trying to be proactive.
We are all aware that 'cold patch' is temporary. Now, why did they patch Walnut street with asphalt last summer? Did that make matters worse as Mr Lynch predicted?
RE: Lake East Generators
One is installed at the Chestnut St pump station for the water department.
The second is installed and backing up City Hall. You did notice they had power didn't you?
Fairport is fed off a 33KV line that did not fall down. Both circuits that feed Painesville substations fell down from Newell St to Elm St and were sitting on Painesville lines in several places. Even if Painesville was generating, they would have been knocked off line and would not have been able to come back up until FE removed their lines from on top of Painesville, which took a long time.
As someone stated on a past post, there were no "issues" with Painesville that kept power off. Within ten minutes of FE re-energizing their line, Painesville Power was restored to customers.
The Newsless-Herald has struck again, only this time, instead of calling them out on it, you seem to be taking them at their word. They totally misquoted FE, even as they totally misquoted Mr. McHugh after the council meeting. They seem to be trying to start a war between Painesville and FE and you seem to be helping them along.
For your information there were several generators from the hospital. You might find that one is located next to the city hall annex. Other one not known. Every new school has a generator(located right next to their transformers) so one might start by asking why these new schools were not opened as centers. At least one should be organized to accommodate residents in need. I am not sure the new superintendent has been approached. He lives in Painesville so he lived the power outages recently!
Again without asking my son about the Fairport power on vs power off in Painesville, the only answer might be someone had a generator. I know that Lubrizol has their own generator.
During both outages, my son did some of the "switching" for which means he took circuit loads and through a "many stepped" process moved the loads to other sub-stations. This is why you may have found some areas came on quickly and other it took time.
As far as the power plant, in reality it would take far more money than what the city has to prepare it to work by EPA standards.
As far as the "Wind Farms" for our location the figures provided indicated that we could only rely on them about 22% of the time. Where they are successful are where you have constant wind. These were to be installed as a supplement.
The first company went out of busy before the job could be started. The second company never produced the wind farm as well. As discussion about the wind farm in the lake it was discovered that the building wasn't going to be near our lines.
Anyway, the first outage was one that left us without a quick fix!
The second one should have been a wake-up call. Painesville need to have an Emergency Plan and communicate this plan to EVERYONE.
We all need to plan for the future. We need to be able to function in time of need. I like the statement about WiFi hook-up and will be looking into this as a possible way to communicate.
Soon it will be hot weather and then the concern will be high A.C. usage.
As far as Painesville having issues with the last outage- Painesville DID NOT have issues. Our plant wasn't even running!
Remember to get anyone here from First Energy they have to be sent and it is a dispatch out of Akron. That takes time. The men that could work on the "Steel Towers" work out of Brooklyn or out of town. That line that broke is overseen by a dispatch out of Wadsworth. So does this tell you that it isn't an easy fix. It has nothing to do with whether or not we were First Energy customers. The normal procedure is to isolate the problem and then start getting as many customers back on. So you found people living outside of Painesville and Fairport were back on fairly fast. The problem was how massive the damage was and unfortunately it was going right through the North End of town hitting our lines.
In order to plan for the future, I hope the leaders in town will work on some real plans so people will know where to go and what to do!
9:58/3:45 This is the type of dialoged I like on the blog.
Look social media is great but facebook won't solve our plans for the future.
Look Mr. McHugh didn't really address the 'issues" issue only that we should know it was made by a First Energy spokesman? This could have been resolved if the N/H reporter would have followed-up with an explanation of the spokesman about those issues. Now the administration or a concerned council person should address this issue with First Energy (in the public eyes)
as Katie would say poop or get off the pot.
War between First Energy and Painesville? That battle started a dozen years ago ask Rita or Joe.
It will heat up even more if Painesville runs power to the JEDD. Everyone should remember who's hand is on the switch.
I am somewhat disillusioned of Painesville Power.
Meigs County AMPGS, Prairie State, the $500,000 battery box building, the windmill project even the new sub-station promised in July. Not all of this can be blamed on First Energy.
A few comments to help clear up your recent thoughts- We are not at war with First Energy. One might think that but we have to work with them as we buy power! As far as selling power to the hospital- again this might be welcomed relief to First Energy! That is one building and years away from being built!
The new sub-station was being worked on this week. Thompson Electric was doing the tie in job. There are many factors that could have delayed the completion of this project.
I am in no way disillusioned with Painesville Power. Do I think there may be some room for improvement-yes. Do I think they are wrongly taking heat for a situation that they could do nothing about- yes.
Wind power would be interesting to explore. So should they take heat for it not happening already- NO!
As I said when I asked my source he said that twice this project was organized to find the wind power companies disappear.
This is something to explore but it is not the most pressing problem!
My McHugh is fully capable! We as a community need to encourage our elected people to work on emergency plans. Again, from extensive knowledge of this community in the area of electricity, we have facilities that could have been opened in all areas of our community as these facilities have their own generators. You need to have a PLAN!!!!
Then I am going to leave you with one additional thought- In Texas it is a sport(illegal at that) to shoot out insulators. You only needed one to fail to take down many! In the 40 year electric distribution career of my source he had NEVER seen anything like what happened and he has seen a lot!! We watched the problem and the repair of the situation-daily! Again, the linemen working on this situation did a great job!
I would say that everyone in the leadership position in Painesville needs to get on the same page- We have a new city manager, we have newer superintendent at the light plant, we have a new superintendent for the schools and new city council members thus it is time to get everyone up to speed with what we have in the community and where they are located! Draw up emergency plans! Make the plans public. Fix the communication process so everyone will receive the information. We need to be ready and hope it never happens again!
1:59 Really there's not a war?
How does invading ones territory benefit First Energy? You are drinking the Kool-Aid and at what cost to Painesville Power is it to run service to the JEDD?
So your not disillusioned with the present actions in the last decade of Painesville Power? In a word waste. Wasted man hours at the plant updates, that presently make little sense, building being built to what hold air? payments for unreceived and overpriced power?The former city administration brought that and windmills to council with it's recommendation. I would expect the person in charge to live closer to Painesville. Now if First Energy called the department I was in charge of out in the media. I would push for an explanation from them.
Reading this comment only means you are somehow in charge of this present problem and see NO need for council to take any action? They should demand to but then this is the same bunch that sends 2 million dollar checks out for failure. Move on nothing to see here folks!
In an attempt to learn more about the operation of our Electric Plant, I went on the painesville.com, Archives, Monthly Department Reports.
The last monthly report posted was dated August 2012!
Perhaps Term is right, The Electric Super maybe too busy drinking the kool aide than keeping the citizens [or Council] informed of how much we produce and how much we buy. What's the big secret? The lights maybe on but I'm not sure anyone's home.
7:53 I am positive monthly reports are given why they are not on the city site only the administration can tell you.
Our electric plant director lives further away than First Energys corporate headquarters. Will he take responsibility as to what his employee's tell FE?
I suspect Term is right. Monthly reports are still done but not posted. It would be embarrassing to publish a written report that states we are purchasing power at a greater price than it would cost to produce power at our own Plant.
We have an idle Plant, an idle work force and an idle minded Superintendent that likes to joke about outages and blame First Energy.
Please, lets get serious and get to work and solve our problems.
That one post by a blogger here a little while back explained how we are all getting ripped off by the Power Factor on our electric bills, and how with the plant not producing power, it is not a valid charge. This is something I have thought for years, as I am sure many others have, too. Now that we know, as that poster seemed to know what they were talking about, I wonder if anything can be done about that. Just one more lie and cover-up by this city. It's shameful, really.
TERM I think the people you talk about!when you do not like their point!! The ANONYMOUS ones are smart and very helpful! Maybe remember that when you think you are all that!
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