"IF YOU GOT THE MONEY, I GOT THE TIME" willie nelson (1976 version)
Problem is we don't got the money.
Went to the city council work session last night. Joe Hada and the administration rolled out there 17 point plan to improve Painesville.
Everything from Downtown Streescapes, to the old hotel being torn down to what to put on the old Lake East site. This plus improvements with the promise of another levy for streets and probably another for the safety forces.
Council-President Hada mentioned that the last road levy didn't lose that badly. Joe for every dollar you put into a road levy I guarantee I will put a dollar in to oppose it. Remember the last Safety levy?
It seems the city leaders believe they must convince us that money from the electric fund can't be used for street repair.
Here's a concept my grocery fund can't be used to fund your street repair.
Over twenty years of neglect and now the solution is a levy? In the past the roads were funded by the last year "leftover" money. Look you can't fund your general fund when 80% of it goes to wages and benefits.
I for one am looking forward to the coming struggle. The waste of money in Painesville will be brought forward to the voters.
The administration brags about laying four part-timers off? Along with not replacing retired workers? Wonder what they contributed in the first place?
posted by terminator1 @ 1:26 PM
41 Comments
41 Comments:
You are a mean man. Those 4 part time people will be unemployed. You don't care that they will be out of a job, a requirement for most everyone these days. Those retiring should be respected for their years of service. Neither deserved your smart-mouth comment by wondering what they contributed in the first place. You really are a mean-spirited and unhappy person.
Painesville is not unlike the rest of the country and it more like 50-60 years of neglect. The actual problem is the majority or us baby boomers want every thing for almost nothing and it's now time to pay for "our neglect" not just blame. My property taxes in Painesville yeild the City a whole $72 dollers a year. I'll vote a levy to fix the roads just as I agreed with the water meter charge to fix the waterlines. Its our town time to buck up and contribute instead of complaining.
This is something that has made me wonder for a long time. I want to stress that this is NOT pointed at Painesville but is just a general question. Hopefully I can explain it in a way that makes sense.
Most of the roads that we use on a daily basis have been paved within my lifetime. When I was young most roads in this country were dirt and/or gravel.
The money to pave the roads must have come from some sort of taxing authority. I am not complaining about it, just stating a fact. Road levies, gasoline taxes, license fees, whatever. It doesn't matter what they are called, they are a tax of some sort and the people paid them. That is the way it has to be done because there is a cost for this work. Roads cost money to build. Now, the roads are built, and in place, but need maintenance.
Now comes my question. What has happened to the money (in the form of taxes, fees, etc) that was used to build the roads in the first place? I can assure you that no tax I have paid has gone away. I pay gasoline taxes, license plate fees, and for road levies yet it obviously hasn't worked.
Has the money used to build the roads been diverted in some way to other funds? It would be typical of politicians and bureaucrats to do this. We see it all the time.
Bottom line is that the money went somewhere after the roads were built. It is time to bring it back to where it belongs. This is true in Painesville, Columbus, and Washington.
6:36 I am a mean man? Then what are the employers that laid off more than 350,000 last week? The CORE employer who laid everyone off?
Look if you have a job and you didn't need to be replaced than maybe you should question what was your purpose there in the first place. If others now cover your responsibilities why didn't they have to do that in the first place?
AND in the usual answer of our council-president "what would you rather we layoff a police or firefighter"?
4:17 Well so your a baby boomer? Tell me when you were born what was Painesvilles Income Tax? Didn't have income tax? How much did the EMS charge you to take you to the hospital? Was it handled by private companies?
How is it OUR neglect if the stewards of Painesville viewed streets and infrastructure as an after thought? It was more important to hire upper management directors to direct directors.
Look around at nearby communities who has worse streets than Painesville. Why?
Tell me how big of a levy will Painesville need to fix all category 3,4,5.streets within 5 years?
4:40 Here's what I'm in the process of doing. I am taking the water budgets for the last five years BEFORE the $8.00 increase and will compare the amounts of repair in dollars made to the five years after the $8.00 surcharge. Will the percentage of money in the early five years for repairs be included in the five years after the surcharge or will that money be used for something else.
Remember when you bought license plates every year and you actually got new plates. Where did that money go? Not for those little stickers.
Why is the state spending less money on road projects, sending all cities less? So the city can cry poor and they get a levy. You pay more and more for less because we let them screw us.
Want to know where all the money went? To salaries. Recently I found a web site www.buckeyeinstitute.org
That listed my first grade child's teacher.
She makes $71,000 plus benefits, under contract by PCLS for 6.5 hours a day 185 days a year. Do the math then ask where all the money goes.
Seem as if the cupcake shop had neither.ime or money. Went by today closed up and for rent sign in the window. Paul Hach must of had 1 to many cupcakes on the hoof?
8:49 sounds like you are envious.
My daughter is a teacher. First, how many years has your child's teacher been teaching. One, 15 or 30? Then, how much does a college education cost? A bachelor degree is nothing these days for a teacher and a Master's is required by many districts. I'm not sure if it is a state requirement. Long hours, out of pocket money. When Johnny doesn't have tissue, glue or crayons, who supplies them. So, when your child walks across that stage and you are SO proud of the moment-remember who helped them get there.
8:49
Money from roads didn't go to your child's first grade teacher. Don't be that naive.
The teacher likely has a Master's degree and a fair amount of service. I would guess that is fairly in line with wages for people in private business with similar credentials.
Besides, isn't your child's education worth something? We pay professional athletes millions of dollars to entertain us but you feel it would be right to cheap out on educating your child??
Additionally, 185 days is the number of days that the children are required to be in class. It is NOT the number of days a teacher(or administrator)works.
And to answer your next question, I am not a teacher nor do I know anyone who is a teacher.
BTW, how would you like your wages posted on a web site as a political "stunt". I am betting you would not like it at all so why are you looking for the wages of someone else. Kind of classless, IMO.
Again, the question is/was where did the money from building the roads go instead of maintaining the roads? It might be to wages but those wages might be at ODOT and in Columbus.
What about the search for a new city manager? What is the word there? Who are the candidates, does anyone know? And what does anyone know about them?
8:49/6:40 I don't understand that comment either. MAYBE their point was if they didn't have a class of students to teach they could have this teacher drive a school bus at here present wage, just a guess? I also believe that government wages should be common knowledge to the public. At the same time I understand this web site is a political stunt.
I checked the web site and can confirm the numbers under contract 6.5 hr. a day 185 days. Student only attend 180 days.( you want to know who it is go find out on your own)
I don't know anything about someone accepting a new job in another district, nor do I know anything about your allegations against a coach. Give their names as well as yours please.
City Manager? Big secret more transparency? I believe I have a good idea the direction the city wants to take. It won't make much difference if we keep the same law director, and finance director. Same old same old. Wouldn't you want to pick your own staff?
Quit sticking up for them. I thought you understood?
People can no longer pay these people and all they want is more along with hiding behind For the Children.
Wait until this contract is up you will soon find out who will be asking for more. Strongsville teachers learned the hard way maybe it's time they all do.
Quit sticking up for them. I thought you understood?
People can no longer pay these people and all they want is more along with hiding behind For the Children.
Wait until this contract is up you will soon find out who will be asking for more. Strongsville teachers learned the hard way maybe it's time they all do.
Look I guess we are all experts on the first grade? All of us have been there. If your point is that teachers already make a pretty good buck O.K. lets agree. Now why is the school year only 180 days a year? You know most people respect teachers and I know some exceptional ones, as well as some that are/were worthless.
Want more money? Get the state to expand the school year say to 220 days? If the levy passes will programs and teachers as well as aides be reinstated?
Strongsville? who in the end came out ahead?
What programs are always threatened to be dropped when they want a levy to pass? Things for the kids. Bussing. 85% of the monies in the system goes for salaries and benefits. Then there's building maintenance and utilities. Very little is really used for the kids. So let's cut somewhere else. Why not start with salaries and benefits? I pay $600 a month for a family insurance policy. These teachers pay what? Not even a fraction of that and get all upset if they are asked for even a penny more. They need to wake up to the tough economic times and deal with life like the rest of us. And we all have college degrees to pay for. They aren't paying for mine.
The city finance director and the city law director most definitely need to go -- with a big kick in the rear on the way out. So I take it there is no plan to remove these two horrible people?
Besides, isn't your child's education worth something?
Terms kid got a good education, right....
How high I am how low I go.....
May 2, 2013 at 9:24 AM OK ANDY, you made your point.
Hey, I work for the schools and would love to work more days. More days = more money. If I work 185 now and school is 220 days thats 40more days of pay for me and every other employee. You may want to be careful what you wish for. If you think the employees are going to work 220 days and only get paid for 180 your crazier than I thought. Even better, lets have year round school!$
3:15 Yes I would expect them to get paid more. Look what we expect them to teach and kids to learn in 180 days?
You don't mind the cost if the end result is something that the student, parents and community see the results of a positive investment.
Pushing kids from one grade to the next even when they failed the course won't cut it.
3:09 I don't have any idea who wrote that comment. With that said I agree 100%, Along with the new city manager demand a full audit of the city finances. Where was the law director during all these failed electric deal.
If the new city manager just "plugs in" to the present system, good luck! Maybe the problem is that it might be hard to find a YES person?
8:47 I guess my only question to add is why is PCLS in the transportation, janitorial and food service business in the firt place? Oh I'm going to hear it about this. Please include a reason.
Hey we made some progress we got out of the landscaping business.
To 3:09 - Sorry, that comment was not from Andy - it was from me. What do you think?...that most of the people in this city don't know that we need to clean house, and that the finance director and the law director need to be the first two to go. Getting rid of McMahon was a wonderful gift, now we have to get the rest of the bums out. We need respectful, non-abusive, non-infantile grown-ups to take these offices and to run this city.
And after we get rid of the law director and the finance director, then we can clean house in the Utilities Office.
And just a little additional note about Gurley (law director). Don't trust a thing he says or a ruling that he makes. He says whatever he needs to say whenever he needs to say it to go along with and cover everything that Hada and his cohorts want to do. Let's get someone in here whose word you can actually trust.
And you are right, Term. If a new city manager comes in here and isn't a mature, intelligent, independent thinker who will not go along with all the crap that Hada and his gang do, then it won't do us any good. We need someone who doesn't play horrible games with the citizens or the city's money. And, yes, we also need a full audit of the city finances, as you say. I would also like to see a federal investigation into the finances of some of the people who have been running this city, along with a federal investigation into all the failed deals that were done on McMahon's watch.
Hey 847... I work as a teacher at PCLS, and I pay just about $500 per month for family insurance....the days of these "Cadillac" health plans are gone. Additionally, another poster compared our districts teachers to Strongsville, it's a LOT different there....I love my job, but it's harder when parents don't care or think you are the enemy. I have lots of great parents and love them....but also have many who could care less.....places like Strongsville, Riverside, and Mentor are already ahead of us because a larger percentage of their students are EXPECTED to do well, and behavior is enforced at the schools..and don't think that all teachers agree with the teachers in Strongsville, because many of us don't.....
2:22 Glad to receive your comment. The general thinking around Painesville has been that school, city workers, only pay around $20.00 per month towards their health care. The BOE as well as the city should release the plans to the public as to end this myth.
Have to wonder if that's to transparent for them?
The city still refuses to tell anyone if there are anymore toxic utility bills? Yeah, hide behind a state law. I thought a municipal owned utility had to be open to the public?
WHY "is PCLS in the transportation, janitorial and food service business in the firt place? You just don't get it do you? FIRST its First not firt.
A. Who else is gonna transport their behinds? Do you think the parent wants to get up that early to do their job? When someone else can do it for them? How are they gonna get home safely without getting in any trouble along the way?
B. Who else is gonna feed them 2 meals a day? Is a parent gonna get out of bed before noon to be sure they eat breakfast? Is a parent gonna pre-plan and pack lunches? As a taxpayer we pay for welfare food and then to give them free meals in school. To me that's double dipping. Shouldn't they use their food stamps to provide for their own children?
C. A clean building is a happy building. When you gotta go you gotta go.
Wouldn't health care information be considered public records? Then you can go in and find out for yourself. Just ask.
Oops, I forgot another thought. Even if there was year round school and it was manditory 24/7. You CAN NOT teach or educate anyone who does NOT want to learn.
Law Director Gurley rules whatever way the administration wants/needs him to rule. I don't think it matters what the law is, it's just a matter of what they need him to say at the moment. He hasn't kept us from any of the million-dollar boondoggles the city has gotten us into, but he's good to have around because he says yes when they want him to, and he says no when they need him to. A match made in hell, it has always seemed to me.
7:07 Little harsh maybe? Why do the bus driver have to be employed by the school district? Madison turned bus transportation over to a private company and saved a million dollars.
Same with food service.
Why doesn't Lake Erie College run its own transportation, and food service?
Here's a thought we can't continue on the way we have.
7:13 Why do you believe someone doesn't want to learn?
Term...PCLS teacher here again....I can tell you that there are plenty of students who don't want to learn. They think that school is place to socialize and cause problems. We NEED an alternative school (in the district) for these students....they can be sent there, then earn their way back to the regular school. I'm not talking about students with disabilities , just those that are purposefully disrupting each and every day with no parental support. Many already use this model (Cleveland, South Euclid-Lyndhurst to name a few). Cedarbrook or the old HHS would have been perfect for this....I'd gladly take a pay cut to implement this....
2:52 socialize and cause problems? Look take an 11 or 12 your old kid that flunks 6th grade math and science and promote them to the next grade, do it again in the 7th and 8th grade and by the time they get to Harvey what else is left but to socialize and be disruptive? Maybe when we kept passing them on they ( young minds) believed they were going to be alright? Where were the parents? Now I'm not suggesting a student parking lot for Heritage Middle but as far as an alternative school? I made the suggestion to some board members when the old schools were torn down maybe we should keep the best one? State St. was in the best shape at that time.
I guess we weren't looking to the future? Then again maybe fear of a charter school?
OR maybe we can teach these kids a trade, welding, home repair something like Auburn Career Center. Why do we expect them to know algebra, chronobiology? History and American government is what they should know something about to deal with their futures.
Maybe just cut them lose for the greater good? Many of these people will end up in the judiciary system anyway. Then we can compare that cost to the cost of doing something better ten years earlier.
2:52 as a teacher with experience I would think you could spot kids in not so ideal conditions? Knowing this you should be first line to get the kids help who don't understand and know the ones taking up space.
6:52... I do understand....that's exactly my point....and I am first in line to help the ones that don't understand...that's why I got into education. I grow tired of the students who are there for the wrong reasons....also, most teachers aren't part of the decision on who passes and who doesn't....that's all administration and Jefferson street. The problem is, all the adults know the ones who take up space, and we don't have a good, working alternative for them that doesn't jeopardize the learning of the other 95% of the school...I'd love to hear community alternatives. I know the schools are full of great kids...I teach them every day, but there are some who don't want to get it and neither do their parents. I just think that this present system is not working for the troublemakers or the students, so we should change something. McWreath would have been a great first step, but that is out. That is BY FAR who the staff and community wanted-it doesn't make sense to me....maybe they wanted him to stay at HHS. We as a staff have heard nothing but bad things about the guy from RH. He even said on his handout that he wanted to work with the MAYOR to improve the schools....which of course, we don't have. He probably never heard of a City Manager.
7:13 Thanks for the good job. I'm starting to feel all these city meeting from the BOE and city administration are a waste of time. It seems they have decided things and only give an appearance they want input. If from parents, staff or residents. To bad. As I mentioned in another post I honestly had the intention of voting YES for the levy Tuesday. Now if the BOE doesn't tell me the choice by the time I get to the polls on Tuesday I'm voting NO. Call it a cop out if you wish. But everyone should call the BOE office Monday with that same promise.
This silliness must end now.
Has the teachers union come out in support of a candidate? If so, which one? Are the teachers united in a choice for the next Superintendent and have they made their wishes known to the board? There were several teachers present at some of the meetings ....... Just wondering how this all works.
I would like a decision before Tuesday.
Has anyone called the board to ask what's up? I
Would but don't really care
Do you think you have changed the board desire to name a new leader before the election Term?
5:31 In one word NO. This is unusual process.
Anybody at Heritage have a clue what "Weenie Wack Wednesday" is all about?
6th grade boys hit each other in the weenies on Wednesdays....can't make it up.......
1:28 Who is in charge of this program? Are the boys provided with athletic cups? Does this have anything to do with the fired coach?
No....the boys do it to each other....it's a joke to them...the coach is much more serious....
Oh yeah, that makes want to vote for a levy......
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