"CRYING..." aerosmith
Trying to forget you...
AMP-OHIO's cavalcade of electricity stars made their appearance in Painesville tonight.
Have they got a deal for us! The opportunity to buy into a gas-fired intermediate power plant (rather than base power) that is worth $1,200,000,000.00 [that's right... billion] for only $575,000,000.00 First Energy bought it... completed it... and now has no use for it?
No money down. All we have to do is agree to purchase 5.1 megawatts a day for the next 35 years.... along with natural gas costs and any maintenance costs that could/should arise.
AMP-OHIO notified the city about this latest contract proposal late in March or early in April...and yet now we must decide by the next council meeting. [declare an emergency] What's the hurry now?
Ask the clerk of council... it was stated that this work session was the second reading? Yet I heard no 'reading'. She mentioned I must have not been paying attention. I asked 5 other people and no one else heard a reading of the ordinance. Another trick in play?
I don't know if this will get off the ground because to make this project work they need 100 more buyers like Painesville to make the project feasible. Should we take the shovel away from these people? An interesting side-note: two council people from Oberlin attended...bottom-line with them (another private college town) they were glad they didn't get involved with the Meigs County mess and they wouldn't touch this deal with the proverbial ten foot pole.
35 years.... that's a long time... what do you think?
posted by terminator1 @ 7:45 PM
44 Comments
44 Comments:
Half the marriages in this country don't even last that long...and we're supposed to stay in bed with AMP Ohio that long...with no problems? Surely the city administration was just being courteous in hearing out this latest deal....they can't be serious about it...can they? And just to clarify a fine point about how much we already owe.....let's not split hairs. Even if I haven't gotten a bill yet...I know whether I owe money or not. Just because AMP Ohio hasn't sent us an invoice doesn't mean it isn't coming.
What do you mean second reading? It was shown as a work session NOT a council meeting?
I guess I could see how they could pass off last week's meeting as the first "reading" - although it sounded more like an open forum discussion to me. It was, however, an item on the agenda. Does that qualify it for first reading?
I'm strictly against this. I realize the city needs supplemental power during peak hours of usage, but there has to be another option? Couldn't we invest in a windmill or some kind of energy producing device? It'll be an up front cost, but the savings over time will be worth it!
As I sat through the meeting I was glad there were many more questions asked the AMP Rep's than the last time a contract with AMP rolled through Painesville council.
This is still a "Take or Pay" contract. As I sat through an hour and half of the AMP sales pitch I kept wondering when they would parade out the dancing girls and ponies. Unfortunately I had to leave in the middle of Councilman Hada's question ......... still don't know what he was trying to ask but seemed tongue tied and to be honest after an hour and half he should have had his thoughts a bit more collected.
One glaring red flag on this project. This is a gas run duo turbine plant that is "99% complete" and they have not lined up any gas suppliers to date. Not one contract has been put into place to supply this plant. Yet another variable! We were shown maps of all the pipelines and then were told if "we have to get gas from New Mexico, the pipelines are available." It only burns natural gas and cannot burn propane or methane, no alternative to natural gas.
Councilman Flock asked if any communities who signed up with the Meigs county deal have backed out of this "deal". The Amp Rep's said; Yes. Councilman Flocked asked for the list and the Rep's squirmed a bit but said they would get the list for him. AMP has 128 members, they are projecting 80-90 will take the Fremont contract, they need closer to 100 or the the deal fails. Good Luck......
Bottom line....... one company went bankrupt trying to get this plant on line. First Energy has put it on the block for sale and AMP picked it up for a sweet deal of over half a billion dollars. If something goes wrong AMP will have 100 communities to spread the loss; if they can find a 100 communities to go along with this take or pay contract. AMP, because it is a cooperative and non-profit can continue to do go about their merry way while communities try to figure out how to foot the bill.
And although the AMP Rep's played down the risk and painted a rosy picture it is a gamble. Should we gamble taxpayer money?
I'm voting NO.
I also feel very uneasy that a contract of this magnitude has not gone to the people for a vote. If it passed I would feel a bit better about the "deal" as it would be a decision made by the residents who ultimately pay the bills around here.
One question I would like addressed;
Have we made any money with AMP? Or maybe better; How much has AMP saved us on our energy needs? I would have like to heard that asked. This seems to be done a deal in City Managers mind and some of council....... again! Had one council person asked that question it would have made a bit more sense as to why we are still doing business with AMP.
As of today I only know of the $2,000,000 we owe for the Meigs county mess.
Stay tuned because council was informed about the litigation with Bechtel on that one. (AMP is suing Bechtel over the Meigs plant..... for how many millions? I lost track of the millions and billions batted around council chambers)
I believe this is another example of the smoke and mirrors the administration uses on a regular basis. Why the rush to spend so much money? What's the hurry to ram this through without giving council or citizens a chance to discuss/examine such a large expenditure? And if we have caught a glimmer of the underhanded tactics used with the AMP proposal....what's getting past us?
Shame on you Rita... and shame on you too Mr Hada...for mortgaging Painesville's future yet again. If this town survives it will be in spite of you...not because of you.
First Energy bought it... completed it... and now has no use for it????
Why?
Councilman Hada, said because it was redundant! Redundant? This is just another AMP-OHIO's boondoggle!
Yeah, don't you just love the way they're pulling the we-have-to-decide-in-the-next-two-minutes crap again? Just another tactic to be able to pull the wool over our eyes while they shove things down our throats that make no sense to anyone but them.
Investigations. We need investigations.
And if anyone doesn't know by now that the sales tactic of you-must-buy-right-this-minute-or-you-will-lose-the-deal is the way only scam artists (i.e. criminals) do business, then shame on us. I don't know who keeps being the orchestrator of that crap in this city - whether it's Hada/McMahon or AMP-OHIO (I would assume both), but it looks criminal, it feels criminal, and I think we need investigations in this city.
I don't understand why council members from Oberlin were present. They weren't there supporting AMP, so why would they care if we joined? It seems odd that they would be here trying to influence any decision. A couple of years ago several people from Lake County attended Oberlin council meetings to encourage them not to declare themselves a sanctuary city. Well, they said that they would not listen to outsiders and they voted "yes". So now they are the outsiders. I am leary of this.
Oberlin decided that since they voted "no" to Meigs County, they were not interested in Fremont.AMP-OHIO never even made a presentation to them. They came to hear the presentation. They left glad they didn't get involved. Their already 2 million dollars ahead of Painesville.
Yes I understand the Rally Team left a great impression of Painesville at one of their council meetings.
Investment 101 includes looking at a company's track record and whether they are involved in any litigation. AMP Ohio fails miserably on both counts. (failed development and mega-lawsuit) Council...get out while the gettin' is good.
I just read in the latest "Eco Watch" publication. Fracking is being debated in the legislation of Ohio currently. Fracking is the resource capture that will fuel the Gas fired power plant. Bad idea! P Ville should steer clear of this project. Pville has enough problems just being itself... do not need to take on external problems in this area.
Term, were you there at Oberlin and what kind of impression did you or the Rally Team leave? What was Painesvile's councils impression of Oberlin? Did they make the same response? Did council call them outsiders? Just wondering.
No I wasn't and this was the first time I had heard about the rally team at Oberlin. I can only imagine how afew acted. They wern't even upset with the rally group and acknowledged that Painesville had a problem. My thoughts were how can you tell others to do things a certain way if you can't even clean-up your own backyard. Joe Hada shut off the dialogue as fast as he could. My thinking is that Oberlins council has forgotten more about AMP-OHIO then our council knows.
TERM, you "can only imagine how a few acted."? Well, you weren't there. The Rally team was nothing but respectful and factual. So you are doing a put down on them just strictly by "I can only imagine."
They don't need my help. but if this blog. is any indication of how they might conduct themselves?
Odd how they would leave an impression?
Jim Fodor and Joe Hada are just two teachers that believe they should be running the world.
Term 4:12: And what has the Rally Team or anyone else against illegals done on this blog to warrant that kind of statement from you. You're the only one I have ever heard act badly on this issue, and here you go again.
1:04 You ain't payin' much attention? The rally group should educate not inflame the situation. Not sayin' but...Oberlin Council Meetings? You now have to go through a metal detector? I was never there.
Tell me How many illegals has the rally team got to leave Painesville?
Term, 1:13: I am one who is paying attention and I have no idea what you are talking about. Educate and not inflame? Nobody from the Rally Group has inflamed anything. Only you by your lies about the group and campaigning against them. If anyone needs to take blame for the illegals still being here, it is you. You are the only person I know of who fought the Rally Team instead of the illegals. And what about Oberlin? And what about metal detectors? Are we supposed to know what you are talking about?
The Rally Team is fighting hard to get E-Verify adopted in this state. What are you doing - AGAIN AND STILL - except for maligning them? I have no respect for you when you talk about this issue, and you really show what a jerk you are over this. Again, if they would have asked you or your friend to head it, you would not still be on the attack. You are jealous, and that is your problem with the Rally Team. I think it is you who needs to get informed. Have you made one trip with them to fight for our city or country? No, you have not.
And for the person wondering what you can do about the illegals: The Rally Team is fighting hard to get E-Verify in our state. If they accomplish this, then nobody will be able to work here that is not here legally. That is the way to get them out. They will leave on their own, and as they go, their job will go back to a legal American. You can go on the Rally Team website GrassrootsRallyTeam.org to see what they are doing, and if you can help, and you can contact government officials in Ohio, and tell them you demand this in Ohio. President Obama is on board with this now, so we have a really good chance, if everyone fights for this, of ridding our country of the illegals, with this as a huge first step. The second thing you can do, is to not look to Term for leadership on this issue, and to not listen to him tear down the people who have worked tirelessly on this issue for all of us.
3:12 Well, now your on to something last week I sent an email to Representative Ron Young about what Ohio is planning to do about illegal immigration. As expected no answer. They control all 3 branches of Ohio government. They can pass bills about conceal and carry liceense people to go to a bar, but for some reason illegal immigrantion takes a back seat to just about every issue? E-Verify great not only for employers but temp agencys like Mr. Youngs also?
Term, leave the rally group alone. It's more then obvious they have become irrelevant in the city anyway. Theres more illegal's now than when they started.
Just curious Term, what's your count? Does council listen to you? How much did you save Painesville on the AMP deal? How's the house next to Falcone's? How many sidewalk squares are currently painted? What are the names of our schools now? Have you fixed any streets or flooding? The list of complaints go on and on.
If you are against illegal immigration, why put down a group fight that cause? If you want people to support your POC, you might want to be more positive to those who are fighting similar problems. Keep knocking people or groups and you will drive support away from your POC. You need to work together with other groups instead of alienating them if you want greater numbers and more diverse support for these causes. Just my opinion.
Gee, sent an email. Wonder how many politicians get. Local a few, county maybe a few more, state level more yet, and so on. I know I don't read all of my mail and reply to less. Phone calls and written (snail mail) works better. Next a visit to his office or personally talk to him is better. Have you done either? You can read on the Rally teams web site that they go to Columbus and our Commissioners meeting regularly. Do you? So sent an email, I did my job and Young didn't answer right away me so I can say he isn't doing anything. As stated above, your credibility on this issue is nil.
We also have to push our government officials into a Temporary Workers Program, so the farmers who need them in the field ONLY can legally get workers. They can come here for the season, or for a year, and then go home. The next year, the next people in line come. It's the only way we can actually get the rest of them out, because some employers (field work only) really do need them. These two programs really need to be done together in order for them to work. We have to admit the need of the farmers' crops before we can get the rest of them out. Already some states are working on these two programs together, so there is precedent showing that this can work, it is what needs to be done, and we in Ohio can do this, too.
TERM 5:21, is that your way of doing your usual inuendo's that Ron Young is hiring illegals? That is what you implied and that is what you are so good at. Planting a seed in people's mind.
6:37 No indendo's lets make E verify cover all employers. You planrted your own seed.
5:32 And what's your count on illegals?
5:46 Why have e mail then not use it?
5:58 Will we provide schools for these workers children, other scocial services? Will theyu become part of our Social Security system?
Only as field workers?
AMEN, The GOP control Ohio legislator's seem to be more interested in taking bargining rights from police and firemen then ridding the state of illegals.
Businesses want them here, what's wrong with you people. Why can't you understand this?
Term, you seem to have a personal gripe against the Rally Team. You are also against Republicans, Rita, the two Joes, Hanlon, our elected official, certainCouncil members, department heads and many others. How many more have you alienated?
Besides you, Tony, John Murphy, Sandy, Adam, and Andy, how much support do you and your POC expect to keep. You seem to want to work against everyone instead of with someone. I guess if they don't agree with you, they are worthless to you.
To Term 4:13: This is 5:58. There is precident for having termporary field workers in the U.S. I do not know all the details that need to be worked out, but some of the states are doing it as we speak. To have them part of the Social Security system would be insane, so hopefully nobody is so stupid as to propose that. They do not come here and stay here. They come for a short time, then go home and are replaced by the next in line. I would personally allow only the worker, not the family. If they cannot leave their family for the six months or year they would be here, then they should not come. Clearly something has to be done with their health care while they are here. I don't know what the states are working out in that area. Schooling for their children: Again, I hope they are only going to allow the worker. No reason for our schools to be burdened. Clearly they also have to address the Anchor Baby issue. Enough is enough already with that. If a woman wants to come pregnant, then it needs to be with the understanding that her child will not be an American citizen if it is born here.
Again, I don't know all the details. Would have to look and see what was done in the past with the Bracero Program, etc., and what the states are doing that are implementing these programs now.
The bottom line is that we need to get the illegals out of our country while still making provisions for farmers' crops to be picked. We need to be as fair as possible to the workers, and have common sense as it applies to protecting America, her citizens, and her money.
I don't have a gripe against anyone or group. I never started this blog. to win a popularity contest only to inform and state my opinion and anyone else who wishes to comment. Do I alienate people because I spread lies? Like someone else mentioned you won't read this stuff in the Painesville Pride. I am slowly watching the city I grew-up in continuing spiraling down the drain. Are you proud of Painesville? Are you proud of our schools? Do you see a FUTURE FOR YOUR CHILDREN HERE?
5:58 You know if I was a Mexican I would tell you K.M.A. grow and pick your own crops. All for you and what for me? Sounds like you want to use people?
Would they even have civil rights? Maybe..
Atleast while there in the fields?
Anonymous 9:21am:
myth: Senate Bill 5 destroys public workers' collective bargaining rights.
fact: Government employee unions can still assist their members in negotiating pay and employment conditions. But managers will have certain rights restored, like the ability to implement modern procedures, assign employees, and determine hours without union interference.
myth: Police officers, teachers and firefighters are being made scapegoats for the current financial condition of the state.
fact: Ohio's excellent public employees are not being blamed for anything. State and local governments, as well as school districts, are facing the same serious financial challenges that private sector workers and companies have faced in the last few years. With 70 to 80 percent of government budgets going to personnel costs, they are struggling to pay bills and provide essential services. Senate Bill 5 asks public employees to make modest contributions to benefits such as health care (15%, compared to an average 31% in the private sector), and it returns to public managers the flexibility to make management decisions to control costs. Teachers, polivce officers, firefighters and other public employees are highly valued for their excellent service to the state, and, even after Senate Bill 5 is implemented, they will enjoy pay, health care and retirement benefits that are superior to the average private sector employee.
9:21, why can't you understand this?
Term 1:38: This is 5:58. The truth is just the truth. We cannot give away our country to the illegals, and we need people to pick our produce. They would have every right to tell us to kiss their A$$E$ and not come. Their choice to come or not given the circumstances that they will be aware of before they come. It's not politically correct, it is just the reality of the situation. There is no other solution. Nobody that comes to work in the fields here stay in the fields after they are legal or find something better. So it has to be field work only, for a temporary amount of time. Their choice to come or not. As bad as it sounds, that is the reality, there would be plenty of people that would want to come, and we need them. We haven't been grown up enough to face those truths and, therefore, have not implemented the programs necessary to allow us to rid our country of illegals, while making arrangements for the farmers. And nobody will be forcing them to come. Maybe someday someone will figure out how to automate the industry, but until then, or unless America has enough teenagers/people to do the work, that is the way it is.
This is 5:58 adding to my last post. You ask if they would have civil rights? Come on now. Of course they would have civil rights. They would be here legally, and this IS America.
Your right politicans will have final say over our safety forces.
We see about this in November.
This isn't politically correct but to me it's the elephant in the room, when we talk about Painesville's future. When I drive through certain parts of town I see 'low end' businesses, shabby looking houses, and to put it bluntly, low class people, of all races, not just going to pick on one or two. Painesville's population seems to be skewed toward the low-income/uneducated end of the scale, and that demographic is going to hold us down as long as it exists. I'm not saying that low income automatically equals low class but there ARE a lot of lower class people in this town, who for whatever reasons don't take care of their homes, don't know how to respect their neighbors, and behave in ways that make life unpleasant for those around them. All you have to do is drive up Richmond Street to get a very negative impression of this place. How do you fix THAT?
7:02am, you have good points there. I don't know how to fix it. As long as we have such a high percentage of renters, and not to disparage all renters, but the majority don't care about the property. So many are section 8 renters, and studies show that when you are handed something for free rather than work for it, it just doesn't mean much to you. No pride in it. Combine that with absentee landlords who just want to collect the big bucks in rent and don't care about the neighbors, and you have declining neighborhoods. We have big problems here. And I am so tired of seeing the ladies of summer in the Prospect/Richmond area. Sitting on guardrails, running out to cars that stop right on busy Richmond -- it is just disgraceful and embarrassing as a resident.
&:02 People at or near the bottom of the economic scale have very little choice where they live. Low class or Poor there's a difference? I know poor people with class and wealthy people without any.
The upscale people will not move into Painesville until the schools improve. Windmill Estates, Heisley Park are both in the Riverside school district and add few dollars or students to Painesville City Schools.
We have just about chased everyone with money out of town. That cheap electricity doesn't seem to matter much here?
What cheap electricity? Not by my bills. By my bills, it's outrageous.
5:01
Talk to Council-President Hada.
This is 5:01: The only way to talk to Council President Hada is to get him out of office. I image that you will agree with me.
I don't think anyone should have agreed to any raise in water costs to the residents, either, until we have the next election. Try to get these horrifying people out of office first. Take a loan out for the Elm Street problem if necessary, have the election, try to get Hada, etc. out. Then let new people and/or outside sources look at the books, and then if necessary, have a usage raise, not a flat-fee charge, to all users of Painesville water.
I have tried to talk to/reason with Hada in the past. I know that it is not worth wasting one more minute of my life on. Does absolutely no good.
So they are charging all city water users this huge increase as if we have to replace all the water pipes within the next - what - 10 years? Yeah, they're old. But let's not get carried away. A reasonable increase based on usage. Let's not lose our minds here. And somebody better be watching this new honey pot pretty closely. Here's just another huge sum of money that McMahon/Hada have at their disposal. I never quite seem to understand where the money goes, so having one more million-dollar fund that nobody but them are closely monitoring makes me just that more nervous.
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