"COMMUNICATION BREAKDOWN" led zeppelin
I'm starting to realize a lot of the problems we face here in Painesville just might be simple "communication breakdowns". A perfect example happened this week when a News-Herald article about Painesville being sued by a resident that had been "tazered" by a police officer. After reading the article where was the response from city administration. The reporter had tried to contact the city manager slash law director who was out on vacation. Now did she try to contact anyone else or was she even told to talk to the assistant city manager? Painesville had plenty of notice to prepare a press release about this incident, did they?
Was anyone in the administration been given authority to talk to the press while the city manager was on vacation? What about the police officer why was he left blowing in the wind. Many people believe silence is an admission of guilt to some degree. This officer needs the support of the administration behind him at this time. This is not the time to let people come to conclusions on their own.
Many of you have theories about what happened this will be settled in the courts. At this time the city should stand behind the Police Department and this officer.
Was there miscommunication between council and the administration concerning the AMP-OHIO mess? Was there miscommunication between the city and the hospital and could that have been a reason for the move?
Was there miscommunication between the administration and council in regards to Grand River Fire Department opting out of the Cobblestone agreement?
Are there lines of communication open concerning Millstone?
My best guess? This city is presently being run by an individual who only micro-manages the operation of this city if she doesn't want you to know you won't.
posted by terminator1 @ 2:06 PM
118 Comments
118 Comments:
Term I think you bring up a very good point. However in the case of the city and one of the police officers being sued, it might be the city manager/law director's opinion that information about the particulars will not be released. It's not because anyone is guilty or they are too lazy to comment. I think it is because a normal layman cannot understand the workings of something which can be very complicated. Just look at the ignorant people that jump to all kinds of undeducated conclusions in the HN comments. No matter what facts are released,If readers are ignorant of police and legal matters dealing with taser, pre-existing medical conditions,and use of force, a press release is moot. The courts will decide, just as you said. Educated people who have knowledge of what the issue is here will testify. Jury members who have not formulated an option based off of some ambulance chaser's NH propaganda article will come to a decision.
Dumping gas on a crap storm of CSI watcher's ignorance with a CM or PPD press release will do no good and is frankly a waste of paper, breath and blogspace.
If your right, why are we paying for all this high-priced help?
It's a great way to spread the blame when any is due...high priced fall guys/gals are more like it. A lot of people would take some heat for a fat pay-check.
Term, You said "At this time the city should stand behind the Police Department and this officer." What would you have the city say in the press release about this incident? I say, the city should remain silent and let the courts handle the situation. And remember the city also, represents the resident!
Just saying - don't know who the reporter asked for comment but usually if you are getting sued your lawyer will tell you to not comment. The only person to usually comment will be the side that filed the lawsuit.
Rightfully so...Nobody should be flapping their jaws or running thier mouths about it.
Good Grief, it's a legal case and a lawsuit. What may be spoken could be very damaging to the case-on either side. Let the experts do what they do best.
Kathy and 5:46 12:58 I didn't say the city should try this case in the newspaper, only that they should have been ready to issue a statement that they stand behind the department and this officer at the present time. They do, don't they?
Presently we have no idea if this officer is on administrative leave, desk duty or whatever. I would think the law firm representing the city would appreciate the administration standing behind this officer.
Then again I'm no "expert".
Happy New Year.. Steele Mansion News-Herald front page. Reading the comment section on there web site it looks like many don't already trust the city or its building department? Smart people
Term,
You are so wrong about this the city does not need to comment at this time, and it is not a big deal, this stuff happends every where, you just want to try and make the city look bad, get over it.
How does this make the city look bad? please explain.
This stuff happens everywhere? A police officer was accused of tasering someone for 21 seconds, and the person is now claiming to have mental problems? This happens everywhere?
I guess this is one more item the people in town don't need to know about? I know who looks bad.
Does the word coverup fit?
To 8:40...Term is not trying to make the city look bad...they do that job very well on their own. The police officer involved is paid by city dollars and the city administration has an obligation to let the taxpayers footing the bill know what they intend to do about it and how they intend to spend OUR money on any defense or settlement. They don't have to give away any information that would be detrimental to a defense...just a statement. This case is a matter of public record and the final outcome will also be accessible to the general public. The city is doing more harm than good by remaining silent....it is letting a groundswell of animosity against the police to develop which will make their jobs that much more difficult. It also leads one to believe that by remaining silent there is something to hide. Or is it just that since the city manager is on vacation there is no one else left at city hall that is allowe to speak in her absense?
or afraid to comment...........
Sorry, I will not print what you THINK happened that night.
Does anyone have any more information on what we should/could do to get rid of McMahon? Has anyone gathered any more information?
7 councilpeople are the only ones who decide if Ms. McMahon serves as city manager. Presently the great majority of council believes she's doing a great job. Let those people know your feelings.
Was there miscommunication between the administration and council in regards to Grand River Fire Department opting out of the Cobblestone agreement?
Grand River cant even take care of themselves let alone another area.
They are so broke just how should they take on more responsibility?
I thought we were looking into changing the charter, if necessary, to be able to vote in (or out) the city manager, or mayor, or whatever. I thought we were looking into what forms of government are possible, and which one the majority of people thought we needed - whether we need a whole new one, or just the old one without McMahon. Wasn't REW looking into that, also?
3:38 We just got thru the Holidays. I expect something limiting the city manager authority on the November ballot.
3:37 Great question now ask it to the city manager she was the one that set that agreement up between Painesville and Grand River. She must have thought it was viable?
Term, this is 3:38. That is wonderful news. Fill us in as soon as you can. Will be anxiously awaiting that and any news on what forms of government people are thinking are viable. For example, are the only two options a city manager in the form of what we have, or a mayoral form?
Limiting the power of the city manager where she has to be more accountable for administration spending.
I think the council should be limited to a dollar amount of what agreement's the city can invest in.
Do you think the voters of Painesville would have voted for the 50 year take and pay agreement with AMP-OHIO?
Do you believe the resident want to make a change from city manager to mayor? Now that would be a battle, are you in?
This is 4:20. I have no idea if I would be in for a battle changing our form of government from a city manager to a mayor. I don't even know if that's the only two forms of government available. For example, are there variations in those two catagories? And I certainly have no idea what the rest of the citizens are in for. Last I knew, the possibilities were being investigated on this site. Sorry I asked.
5:41 They are being investigated. The city will fight any change in city government, along with how many people really want a change? Some want to keep everything the way it is, some just want to change people at the top, some want a Mayor, then theirs some that want both, along with some that want the city manager elected by the residents.
Its complicated to say the least.
Where will most of the support and votes come from?
So if the cop was totally wrong you want the city to stand by him and say we are happy with our cops doing this? If he was wrong you want the city to say he was wrong and expose them even more to all kinds of liability? If he was right they could stand by him and rightfully so, but that fact is yet to be determined. If they make a statement 2/3 of the time it goes badly for the city. Besides the fact that people trained in the law and have decades of legal experience have most likely advised the city to not comment about pending litigation, you want them to comment. Who should the city listen to attorneys that have tons of experience, training, and education oooorrr you?
Lets face it you are just looking to bash the city anyway you can like always. And like always you make no sense.
The following article is from the News Herald; written on 3-2-2010
By Tracey Read
A Mentor patrolman who shot Richard Sabo during a standoff at his home did nothing wrong, city attorneys are arguing.
A lawsuit — filed last month by attorney Robert F. DiCello — stated the city is liable because the police acted unreasonably on Feb. 5, 2009, as a result of “failed and/or inadequate training.”
But in documents filed recently in federal court, city attorney Todd Raskin said the suit should be dismissed because the patrolman was under a duty to act.
That incident began when Mentor paramedics responded to the 72-year-old Sabo’s Roselawn Drive home after family members reported he was acting strangely.
Paramedics claimed Sabo threatened to get a gun and shoot them, so they called police for backup and took Sabo’s wife, Dian, with them.
Eventually, Richard Sabo stepped outside his home with a shotgun that later was determined to be unloaded.
Firing a single bullet, Patrolman Scott Tkach shot Sabo — piercing his lungs, heart and part of his left arm.
Sabo died at the scene.
It was later determined Sabo’s blood-alcohol concentration was nearly three times the legal limit.
Sabo’s widow filed a wrongful death suit against the city, Tkach and 20 unnamed police, fire and Mentor officials asking for at least $5 million
But Raskin disagreed with the assertions made in the suit.
“… Mr. Sabo was shot after he exited the residence with his gun shouldered, causing defendant Officer Tkach to have a reasonable belief that police officers, fire department employees and civilians were in a serious risk of imminent bodily harm,” Raskin stated.
Sabo’s death is the direct result of his actions — which bars his widow from any right to collect, according to the city’s response.
In addition, Raskin said Tkach is entitled to qualified immunity from Dian Sabo’s federal claims.
The suit originally was filed in Lake County Common Pleas Court and then transferred to U.S. District Court in Cleveland.
If Judge James S. Gwin does not dismiss the case, Mentor officials are seeking a jury trial to fight the claims.
Tkach has been a Mentor officer since 1997.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now I am curious to hear what peoples' opinions are as to whether the city of Mentor handled a similar situation properly....or has Painesville handled theirs properly? Is silence golden? Is 'no comment' the best way or is some disclosure a better path? If Menotr could do it (especially when someone died) why can't (or won't) Painesville do it?
To 12:32...why can't the city at least let the citizens know whether he's been put on administrative leave pending a full investigation...and what form that investigation will take? Why would they leave people in the dark so the next time officers are called to a scene there is already bad feelings built up in addition to whatever is going on at that moment? Why can't they comment on what procedures are in place for situations like this? Please don't tell me they don't have some kind of protocol. Let's see some of that education, training and experience in action instead of behind closed doors.
OMG Not another Charter change.
Why have one if you all keep changing it?
I could care less who covers Cobblestone.
They haven't lost life or property there, seems to me they are doing just fine as is. Seems to me someone (council)should have thought of this before approving all the homes there. Seems to me someone (developer) should have thought of this before building the development.
Seems to me someone(home owners)should have thought of this before they purchased property there.
Seems to me the residents are fine with the service they have.
Seems to me there are a few firemen living there, they must have thought the fire service was fine too.
Seems to me there are way to many nosey-bodies (you + 12) that should keep their nose in their own backyard and let the ones with the problems complain.
You dont need to go to bat for every city resident.
Well 7:18....it will become everyone's business when someone dies and the city is sued. And you are absolutely right when you say that the previous council and developer should have thought of the potential problems. It seems to me to be a real shame that profit and increasing tax revenues trumped good decision-making. It also seems to me a really good thing that there are a few concerned citizens willing to go to bat for every resident....if it's bad for one part of Painesville, it's bad for the whole city.
Term, We don't need to know. Let the people in charge handle this!
Move to Mentor, then what will you complain about?
That's the problem 11:53...they AREN'T handling it....
11:53 Is it just complaining? Should we just be satisfied with what we have? 43 million dollars to educate 32,000 students and we still are failing on all fronts?
80 million dollar city budgets and the streets are a mess along with so many other aspects of this city. Sitdown and just putup with what you got. Community Center? Morse Ave. that's what we get? Council Meetings held in a courtroom? We have so little to offer someone to move here and we pretend everything is wonderful. Ya, I'll keep on complaining and just maybe afew eye's will open up.
Simple? Yes you should!
You bring nothing to the table.
For those so happy with what is offered here in the fine city I suggest you put your house on the market.
Now put a hidden camera in the corner and listen to the comments.
You will be shocked at how outsiders view this city, especially people who would like a good education for their children.
Oh and just do it for R&D and don't worry about selling your house as there are very few buyers for our market in the lovely city of Painesville.
11:53 do you subscribe to the Lake County Sheriff's Sexual Predator Notification email list? You should maybe then you might not be so willing to sit back and "let the people in charge handle it"
Here is the latest offender who just moved in:
http://www.icrimewatch.net/offenderdetails.php?OfndrID=1346198&AgencyID=53955
This site is just a blog version of the Tea Party movement, only with different goals. The Tea Party is criticized for preaching and not doing anything. Well, this site does exactly that. It's laughable to say that the 12 regulars on this site are fighting the battle for all of Painesville. They are spouting off, and yes, getting information out to a few, but what are you really accomplishing? Don't criticize the Tea Party for getting information out and not doing anything constructive. Tit for tat. Somehow you look at it differently when it is a conservative movement.
I agree with Madpotter. first-hand knowledge on real estate prices/sales in P-Ville. New schools were supposed to make P-Ville a more desirable place to move. That didn't work. Check the county auditor's web site and compare P-Ville's taxes to other cities in Lake County. You'll be shocked.
4:10 No lies, along with statements like "next time will come armed". Have we paraded around town with pictures of Rita or Joe?
Your movemement is based on fear, ours on facts. Good-Luck
Now watch how your tea friends fold.
4:41, you are doing the typical stating your opinions as facts. Our movement is definitely based on facts, and if you were fully informed you would see that. The point being made was, what the heck have you done to help this city? I mean really help. Reading this blog and spouting off doesn't accomplish anything. And FYI, tea partiers don't fold. We are in it to the end.
What facts? Birthers? Death panels, 200 million dollar a day trips to India. Your movement will die. Not at the hand of Democrats. A the hand of established Republicans. You sir have served your purpose.
Time will tell.
And let's not forget that the tea partiers have been screaming that Obama has created government-run health care, when he did no such thing. He is regulating how health insurance companies can do business in America, and he is working with them to figure out how to save and sustain a system that is collapsing under skyrocketing health care costs. No government-run health care like the Republicans and the tea partiers and their followers have been yelling about. Nothing even close. But then, they wouldn't want the facts to get in the way of their demonstrating over things that do not exist.
This is 4:10 Looks like their " next time will come armed" is now. What a sad day for Arizona and the rest of this country.
Thank's Sarah for putting a gunsight on her district.
Or it just might be a fellow Democrat that doesn't like her Blue Dog views. Might even be Nancy Pelosi's goons since Rep. Gabrielle Giffords didn't vote for Pelosi for Speaker of the House.
Why can't people just say a prayer for the people injured and their families.
An act of a mad man sounds like it to me.
Sorry, "Next time will come armed" may have a point. To most of us we realize limits. We understand that when someone like Sarah Palin puts a gun site on your district it means they want to change control of that district and not that we want that Congresswoman taken out. Problem is there are a few that believe thats what that means.
This person seems anti-government, along with being anti Semtic, and anti- immigration with a demand for gold backed dollars.
He watches Congressional leaders get up and yell "Hell, No We DON"T". and takes it to heart. This should be awakeup call to all Americans.
My own feelings about Rush, Sean, or Glenn is that they are not Patriots but in this to make a buck. You can disagree, It's show business.
Term and 3:28 You are absolutely right. The news will try to say he was not right in the head. He wasn't a Democrat 3:28 or a mad man. We all know who is to blame for this. It is Bush, Palin, Beck, Republican idiots and all those racist teaparty terrorists. Don't believe me than go to any news site and read the comments to the story. The real truth will be told there. We need to rid this country of these people. There isn't a honest bone in there bodies. They will soon be marching down our streets shooting anyone who disagrees with them. I would rather live next to a illegal than a Republican. We need to get these liars out of Painesville. We can start with council and we should kick them out of the senior center too. Then we can get things in Painesville safe for us again.
A true patriot and a Democrat
This madman wasn't a Republian or a Democrat he was just a nut case.
The Congresswoman was a 2nd Amendment right advocate. This nut job bought a glock less then 24 hours before the shooting?
Please don't blame anyones party. We all should agree to disagree go to Jackie's have a beer, and respect each other opinion.
Crazy talk from both the right and left used to come out of the radio, expanded to television. Now it's O.K. to do it on the house and senate floor.
Term, we still need to do something about these crazy teabagger Republicans. None of this would have happened if it weren't for these people. Look what else has happened. It was those racists and Bush that cost us the last elections. They refuse to pay their share of taxes and extend our unemployment. We need the government to help take care of us in these bad economic times. Maybe your meeting at Jackie's can help get rid of these killer Republicans. Now is the time for the Democrats to eliminate these teabaggers.
Now isn't the time to talk. We need to do whatever is necessary to eliminate these liars. We need to take action NOW. Talk is cheap. We need to show them this kind thing will not be allowed to happen again.
A.T.D.
A true Democrat who wants action now. Who's with me.
It is time to talk, we must stop the stupid rhetoric from everyone.
When I hear statement s like "Obamacare's job killing bill"
I wonder if people really believe unemployment would go back down to 4%? What does the GOP plan to replace it with, tell us that first before you attempt to end this bill?
Why waste your time? The Senate won't pass a repeal and the President wound veto it anyway. Why are you wasting time we need to get this country moving forward not back to 2008.
Presently the Republician have a better grasp of getting a sound bite on air then Democrats ever did.
Most people view this a theater what both parties say. Out there somewhere is aqn individual that takes these words to heart.
I have had many RePublican friends that we can debate an issue, and we both can learn something. I have other Republican friend that have nothing to do with me unless I am in Lock Step with them.
We have elected a Governor who by law has to fill an 8 Billion Budget
deficit, who plans to balance it without increasing taxes. Cut's will come fast.
Would we be better served my a Governor who would raise taxes instead?
There's going to be Howling from the schools very soon.
I'm afraid they will have a financial budget catastrophe that no levy could possible fix.
Term, I know what you mean about those Republicans. Every time I try to tell them how wrong they are they just refuse to talk to me. When will these people wake up and listen to us Democrats. Obama and the rest of us know what we're doing. I guess they can't see how wrong they are. Sometimes I wonder why they even vote. They just screw up everything. If they would only admit they are wrong and listen, things would get a lot better. I guess that is to much to ask from a bunch of liars.
Term, you said cuts will come. I'm sure they will. You mentioned cuts to the schools too. Now you say we might be better served if the new governor raised taxes but you were against the school levy.
Raise taxes or cut taxes. Increase the state's deficit or cut services and state government employees. Just what do you want done? What side of the fence do you sit on? Either way, I just waiting for blame to be placed.
We are between a rock and a hard place. Difficult decisions will have to be made. Just waiting for the complaints to start.
I asked it as a question. In my travels you would be amazed how many people have no problem with raising their property tax.
We have to pay our teachers, policemen, they tell me.
I had a resident once tell me that the city manager should make at least $250,000? He wasn't kidding.
I wish the new Governor best of luck, and really hope it works out for the state. He starts out with a gala across the state party startng at the Rock in Roll Hall of Fame, and God knows where he wants to go then, but his swearing in he wants to do in private? He want's to save money already he has boosted the pay in his administration? Not the right start.
To the people who elected him don't come crying if he goes after your sacred cow.
A wise man once told me if you don't make $250,000 a year, don't your own your business, are in a union'
Don't have a professional degree and you vote Republican your nuts!
It's class warfare and guess who's winning.
8:11, 9:31 and 10:57, you sound like total nut cases. Maybe you are just one person. Either way, you sound very threatening. Are you threatening people's lives? TERM, be prepared for another legal situation when this person's IP address is requested. If anything happens to the people he threatened, he will be the first suspected and you would have the proof.
4:16 If they come with a court order fine. I can't even figure out what person was being threatened. I've seen worse signs at a Tea Party Rally. That are just as bad.
See where all this discourse has got us?
I pray some wack job on the far left doesn't take out someone from the other side to even the score.
The hatered from both sides has to stop . Grow up! Everyone must realize they don't get it their way all the time.
It sounds to me like the 22 year old guy who did these horrible shootings does have a mental illness of some sort. Can't be sure, of course, but that would be my guess right now, that that is what the problem is. How sad for everyone involved, including him. I also just don't see how you can have all these Republicans lying and screaming and saying things that are untrue and NOT create some kind of horrible thing that might manifest itself into something like this tragedy. For whatever reason, this kid was sadly and tragically on the wrong path with his thinking and now his actions. The fact that he said before he did it that he hopes his friends aren't mad at him just breaks my heart. His life is over, too, and he clearly thought he was doing the right thing for the common good. Our mental health help in this country is sorely lacking, and the untrue information that is being shouted over and over again out there - whether it had anything to do with this or not - is scary and dangerous and has got to stop. People have to start pulling those who are telling lies up short and stop it instead of perpetuating it. And we have Republicans who are earning their livings on the radio, etc., by telling those lies and inciting those riots, and people who are willing to follow them. And make no doubt about it - Sarah Palin is making a fortune based on her contribution to all these lies and fear tactics. This whole thing is just so, so sad.
So, "I pray some wack job on the far left doesn't take out someone from the other side to even the score."
Sounds like you are saying that this was a far right nut job. Why else would you say it would even the score.
First of all you are making it sound like it was a wack job from the right that did the shooting. Well, wack job is correct but he sure wasn't from the right. And I don't think he was from the left. He was just wacked. Giffords took both liberal and conservative stances. She was avidly pro abortion. She was also anti illegal immigration. I could go on. She was very middle of the road.
This kind of thing unfortunately happens way to often. This is an extreme example but I also seem to remember a horse and someone visiting a certain person's barn. Police were also at someone's house. Threatening statements here, yes.
Threats are becoming far too commonplace. People who don't agree with you now seem to take things into their own hands. Violence is the outcome.
We seem to have more racial tensions, economic tensions, religious tensions and in this case people assume it is entirely political.
Time will tell if he really is a mad man but people will still believe what they want.
I know one thing. I am constantly confronted here and around town because I happen to be more conservative than most here. I'm also sure somewhere down the line someone will somehow place the blame for this on me.
I might as well wear a Pittsburgh jersey in the Dog Pound or a Lebron jersey at a Cavs game. Heck, I think Fred Phelps from the Westboro Baptist Church in Painesville now than someone with my views.
Anyway, my thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by this insane act of violence.
I just heard on the news that the nutcase had his assassination plan in the works for a few years. This was way before Palin or the tea party could have had any influence on him.
I agree with 4:16 and want to add my 2 cents. We have to remember that two wrongs don't make a right. As corny as that is, it is true. We don't want to hurt anyone, we just want the lying to stop. I personally think that one of the ways to do this is for the Democrats to start speaking out loud and clear, and as many times as necessary, to combat, and hopefully stop the lying and viciousness of the other side. It happens so often that the D's message is just shouted down. It's hard to get the truth heard when you are dealing with what is going on in this country. But we have to do that now. We have to keep speaking out loud and strong until the other side knows that they can no longer get away with it. This goes for our Democratic leaders, and this also goes for the press. The press needs to step up and to tell the truth point-blank to the people, so the ones who are just listening to the sound bites of the politicians, etc., actually have a chance to hear the truth. They have to stop being so politically correct. When someone tells a lie, the media really needs to be there, too, telling the truth. Hopefully people will learn that they are not going to get away it anymore. Let's be careful not to incite OURSELVES to a riot. What we want is peace and truth, after all, right? An honest and mature and truthful dialogue by reasonable adults. How we got so far off the beaten path is beyond me. It wins elections for them, though, which is why it is so important for the media to quit pulling punches and to just tell the truth about every situation as it is happening. If people stand up to the lies, they will have to stop. Make peace not war, as we said in the 60's, but we have to find our voices and speak up every time it happens. The R's are being put on the carpet now, so hopefully this a good beginning.
Sorry Badger, You make a lousy Martyr. The GOP has been making hate speech for to long. and now they want cover. "Well, we still have the Second Amendment, if this doesn't work". "If we can't do it with ballots will do it with bullets". "Let's put a cross-hair on these districts". Your party is out of control. We can't even get the Republican leaderships to say that talk of the President not being born in America is fantasy. [Hillary would have brought that to the table if it was true.]
Rush, Sean, Glenn do it daily stir the pot. Let the little people at each other's throat.
Would it be wrong for me to say "We don't retreat, we reload"?
Feel threatened? I wouldn't blame you.
What happened in Tucson this weekend I believe put an end to Palins Presidential run.
You've had the ball in your court for most of the last 40 years. Where has that gotten us? Quit complaining.
5:52 to correct you Representative Gifford was very Pro-Life. Not pro-abortion. Yes and she was Jewish.
Who seemed to be one of the few sane people serving us in the House.
The saddness of a child born on 9/11/01 and dying in this shooting. I can't show enough greif for her family and what they must be going through. What bookend for her short life.
I personally believe that it is the Democrats spouting all the lies and just can't understand why most of you can't see that the Democrats are slowly taking away all your freedoms and turning this country into a socialist Anarchy.
I can be sure when the country improves in 4 years most of you will claim the Dems layed the groundwork for it. Most die hard Dems are that way because like Term said, it is a class war. The Dems have failed to take advantage of America's freedoms to advance your income, education, or lifestyle so instead they decide to attack and try to take away what the sucessful people have managed to accomplish. What a bunch of loosers.
Yeah what's wrong withyou Dems? Insurance companies, and Health organizations are doing such a wonderful job with healthcare. Along with companies like GE that closes plants in America and opens a sweatshop wherever.
The only reason Bush wanted amnesty was so on top of everything wages would stay down.
I agree with Term>. if your not in the top 5% of wage earners your stupid to be a Republican.
What have they done for you and your family?
Anyone believe Hal Werner will look out for the school employee's? Talk about self-serving watch what he does.
Term, you just made my point. I simply said what happens to ME in Painesville and you go off on a anti-Republican rant. You say the angry rhetoric must stop and then you turn around and attack me and the R's. As the poster above said, he may have been planning this for a long time. We all know where you stand and you still think I want Palin for president and I just sit home and watch Rush and Beck all day long. Far from it. I have never watched any of their shows. I have far better things to do. I make up my own mind and don't need some TV person telling me what I should think. I also don't like being blamed for the actions of others as you seem to want to do.
You blame me because you disapprove of the Republicans. If I played your game, then I would be blaming you for all the corruption in Cleveland and the ethics scandals of Rangel and others. Just where would that get anyone.
A time to talk, yes. If one wants to talk then one must be also willing to listen. You can't have a debate or discussion if one just keeps saying the other side is wrong, wrong, wrong or liar liar liar. Sounds like a bunch of kids arguing in the playground, its your fault, no its your fault over and over.
Time to be adults. Time to be afraid, that too. Look at the posts here. You also think the angry rhetoric only comes from one side. So if you want to call me a martyr because I said what happens to me, then again, what good does it do?
Your opinion of me won't change, and I see little point in trying to say much or get people involved and to vote. I have been coming here less and less because I just keep seeing and hearing the same things over and over. Becoming pointless.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the problem with Painesville. Nobody listens to the other person. Does council listen???
Term, to correct you again and give true facts. Rep. Giffords was very Pro-Choice. That means she strongly favored abortion.
Goes to show not everything you read is true.
Badger, Tell me how your attacked? Tell me what would you like changed? I can't help it if there are more Democrats in Painesville then Republicans?
9:26 I wread on yahoo. she was pro-life,and how is that different than being pro-choice?
I think I just stepped into quicksand!
Please again what happened to you?
Nothing like this ever happens if you ask here.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/29/palin.noose/
Term, please tell me you know the difference between Pro-Choice and Pro-Life.
Yes it comes from both sides. No one knows this clown in CA. but when Palin or any leader does it its a shade different.
Pro-Choice does that mean your Pro-Abortion? Explain what it means?
Just asking for clarification?
Pro-Choice means you favor abortion.
Pro-Life means you are AGAINST abortion.
To further clarify.
Most liberals are Pro-Choice
Most conservatives are Pro-Life.
You, as a Catholic should know the difference.
Faith or politics means something on this issue.
Term....Pro-choice is for a woman's choice to continue a pregnancy or terminate. It doesn't necessarily mean abortion but does include that option. It also includes the choice of birth control methods which some pro-lifers think should not be allowed. Pro-life is NO CHOICE...continue a pregnancy no matter what (except some states allow termination in case of danger to the mother's life) I sure hope you are kidding that you needed clarification on that...
Just one more thing that didn't happen.
If they bring a knife, we'll bring a gun.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/
We do know this person Term
11:55 Wanting clarification but does 11:28 have it right?
11:28 here
Keyword is most.
(or in general)
As I said, you are Catholic and are suppose to be against abortion.
That said, it also becomes legality, personal, political and a matter of faith or religious belief.
I have my beliefs and you can have yours.
I think 11:55 has it right!
Pro-Choice does not in anyway mean to promote abortions. It simply means say out of my life. I can best decide what's good for me.
Talk about government intruding in a private matter.
This is 11:55 to 2:33...I agree with you ...there are alot of women that are pro-choice meaning they want to be able to plan when and with whom to have a baby (birth-control) but they don't believe in abortion. And abortion is NOT supposed to be just another method of birth control...its a serious option that should be considered after everything else. That's where alot of the pro-lifers get people riled up and lump everyone into the same catagory.
Pro-Choice definitely includes abortion as an option. That means you do support abortion for anyone that wishes to have one.
TERM, your hatred for Republicans has really taken me by surprise. And your blog is inciting violence against Republicans. Just re-read those threatening posts earlier. How do you handle having a registered Republican in your own family? I can't believe you show this much animosity to them.
"It is time to talk, we must stop the stupid rhetoric from everyone"
I guess that doesn't include you Term.
I believe the stupid rhetoric is very alive and well here. It starts with you against the city, Rita, council, and goes on to the Republicans and Hispanics.
2:33 is correct. Pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. It means pro-choice. I don't know anyone who is pro-choice who is FOR abortion. It simply means that the R's do not have the right to tell a woman what to do. It means she has the right to make the choice based on her OWN conscience.
3:24 I'm angry, All this crazy talk from the right is getting people killed. Yet I have not spoken ONE word of violence against anyone. 3:28 Just because I think certain leaders in this town are destroying it doesn't mean I have hate and wish violence on anyone.
I like Hispanic people. I want them here legally. That's my sin.
This blog. has never threatened anyone, and you know it shifting blame here is just CYA, GOP's. stupid rhetoric? Prove it!
Palin's crosshairs on certain political races or Obama's statement saying "If they bring a knife, we'll bring a gun." are equally wrong. Most normal people understand the metaphors. I have seen and heard a lot of inappropriate things done and said over the years. Both sides and most people are guilty at some point. No one group is innocent. Just look at all the negative campaigning in the past years done by BOTH sides. John Murphy come to mind or Joe Hada?
This tragedy seems to be committed by a mad man. A very sad day for the country. We need to learn from it and make things better in the future.
What I see is the news sources jumping to conclusions and making uninformed accusations that lead to more and more violent rhetoric. To make accusations, insinuations or statements of impropriety about a person or group only makes things worse. As the facts come out, we are starting to see that most things people believed at first are totally wrong. People believe what they read or what they hear and jump to conclusions.
Term, you pass on a lot of valuable information here. But on the other hand, you also make a lot of inaccurate or misleading statements or insinuate wrong doings too.
By stirring the pot so to say, you may not threaten anyone with violence, but it sure leads to more and more angry political rhetoric here in Painesville. Asking questions or attending various city meetings are a positive civic duty. You are to be commended for that. But. You went after a city inspector and the police came to your door. You also went after the board of elections about Arlene Becks. Do you know everyone who reads this personally? What if the wrong kind of person is reading this right now? Why did the police come to your door? Looking for a possible mad man here? Who caused that to happen?
Like it or not, you are just like all the TV commentators you constantly denounce for speaking out on TV. You may not be in it for the money or fame but on a much smaller scale, it is much of the same. You promote your opinions and for the most part dismiss, blame or just see your side of the problem. Quick to blame but slow to commend.
The politicians do it to get elected, the news sites do it for ratings and money and we get more and more divided.
Again, you bring many things to peoples attention that needs to be talked about. But as administrator or moderator if you will, you aren't being very neutral on a lot of topics. If YOU really want to have a place to discuss things, You should be more of an arbitrator than a political blog administrator that imparts his personal opinions ahead of others. You say you lost friends. Ever ask them why?
Palin's crosshairs on certain political races or Obama's statement saying "If they bring a knife, we'll bring a gun." are equally wrong. Most normal people understand the metaphors. I have seen and heard a lot of inappropriate things done and said over the years. Both sides and most people are guilty at some point. No one group is innocent. Just look at all the negative campaigning in the past years done by BOTH sides. John Murphy come to mind or Joe Hada?
This tragedy seems to be committed by a mad man. A very sad day for the country. We need to learn from it and make things better in the future.
What I see is the news sources jumping to conclusions and making uninformed accusations that lead to more and more violent rhetoric. To make accusations, insinuations or statements of impropriety about a person or group only makes things worse. As the facts come out, we are starting to see that most things people believed at first are totally wrong. People believe what they read or what they hear and jump to conclusions.
Term, you pass on a lot of valuable information here. But on the other hand, you also make a lot of inaccurate or misleading statements or insinuate wrong doings too.
By stirring the pot so to say, you may not threaten anyone with violence, but it sure leads to more and more angry political rhetoric here in Painesville. Asking questions or attending various city meetings are a positive civic duty. You are to be commended for that. But. You went after a city inspector and the police came to your door. You also went after the board of elections about Arlene Becks. Do you know everyone who reads this personally? What if the wrong kind of person is reading this right now? Why did the police come to your door? Looking for a possible mad man here? Who caused that to happen?
Like it or not, you are just like all the TV commentators you constantly denounce for speaking out on TV. You may not be in it for the money or fame but on a much smaller scale, it is much of the same. You promote your opinions and for the most part dismiss, blame or just see your side of the problem. Quick to blame but slow to commend.
The politicians do it to get elected, the news sites do it for ratings and money and we get more and more divided.
Again, you bring many things to peoples attention that needs to be talked about. But as administrator or moderator if you will, you aren't being very neutral on a lot of topics. If YOU really want to have a place to discuss things, You should be more of an arbitrator than a political blog administrator that imparts his personal opinions ahead of others. You say you lost friends. Ever ask them why?
We have had Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, Lynette Alice "Squeaky" Fromme, John Hinckley, Jr and even Mark David Chapman among others in our lifetime. What politician, political party or talk show hosts do we blame for these people?
Think things like this can't happen here. Ask Judge Cicconetti and his family.
Think this sight isn't somewhat similar or guilty. A story about a horse and a boarding stable had someone stalking a city employee, her place of business and cause a visit from the police. Talk about targets. This sight wanted the Rally Team members to post their names and addresses like Term does his own. Isn't that asking for a target to be placed on these people. Veronica Dahlberg and who knows who else might then use that info for what. How safe do you think these people would feel then.
The info about Painesville is a positive thing but accusations, innuendos and false rumors are just as bad as angry/violent rhetoric happening over the Tucson killings, just on a smaller scale.
Think not, then just reread the posts above and the posts on the other ones I mentioned. Then put yourself on the receiving end and ask yourself how you would feel. I would venture to say, threatened.
The story about the Horse stable this was a public business.Not private property. The person might just have just been curious how this inspector managed her own property?
She has been know to be heavyhanded and sometimes rude to city residents. This person never stalked her or threated violence on anyone. You wouldn't believe how I have been on the receiving end, I get letters, emails, visits, I knew when I started this there would be blowback. Was the inspector stalking me to replace two sidewalk blocks?
Show me a false rumor.
People like yourself would better serve the community if you spent half as much time watching the city and it's schools, then complaining about the blog.
You still only blame the right. Since you are a member of the left, does that make you above reproach?
This was a crazy man in Arizona. You keep saying the right made him crazy. You are entitled to that opinion but you might just cause something like that to happen when you post things like that in this public forum. How many hits??? Think Painesville doesn't have a few crazy people? That means you are inciting the left against the right and or teaparty. But again, the left never ever does anything wrong. Just because no one was shot or hurt here doesn't mean it couldn't happen. I believe that if you ask the city inspector and our judge, they will both tell you they felt threatened.
I'm not the only one here who thinks the angry rhetoric got out of hand in this post. Someone else said you might get another visit asking for an IP address.
Since you are the blog's administrator, you are responsible for what you post and you could be the one who causes someone to snap. Could you be responsible?? Since you hold the right responsible then you should hold yourself responsible.
One more thing. You say there is no proof anything you said caused someone to get hurt. I would like to see your PROOF that the right caused this shooter to go insane. You keep saying you don't post without facts. Let's see them.
From 9:31am "Now is the time for the Democrats to eliminate these teabaggers." From 10:57am "Now isn't the time to talk. We need to do whatever is necessary to eliminate these liars. We need to take action NOW. Talk is cheap. We need to show them this kind thing will not be allowed to happen again.
A.T.D.
A true Democrat who wants action now. Who's with me. "
Yes, TERM, I feel threatened by these remarks. Why are these remarks OK but anything similar aimed at a liberal is a threat? There are Facebook pages titlted "I wake up every morning sorry that Sarah Palin is still alive" and "I want Sarah Palin dead".(or similar wording). Is this not inciting violence against her? Is this ok in your liberal mind? Yes, TERM, after reading the earlier threats, and yes, they are definitely threats against me, I am very worried about the nut cases posting here and who might be encouraged to take action on eliminating me after being incited by those words.
One more example of angry rhetoric. This one is very clear to understand.
according to the Scranton Times, Rep. Paul Kanjorski, D-Pa said this about Florida’s new Republican Governor Rick Scott on October 23:
“That Scott down there that’s running for governor of Florida,” Mr. Kanjorski said. “Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him.
Here's the link
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/256877/kanjorskis-glass-house-daniel-foster
Ex Democratic Congressman, Paul Kanjorski, said this about Florida Republican Governor Rick Scott on October 23:
"That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him."
TERM, this kind of violent rhetoric comes from both sides, even your beloved liberals.
1/10/11 5:45 a.m., who I am assuming is a Republican, or at the very least a Republican supporter, says that the Democrats are taking away our freedoms and turning this country into a socialist anarchy. What freedoms are those, 5:45? Socialism? In what way? Anarchy? Really? Anarchy means a state of society without government or law. Where in the world do you see THAT happening. The only ones I see running around screaming and yelling and creating chaos (over things that don't exist) are the R's and their supporters.
And you want to talk about class, you elitist? Do you realize that many, many people in this country who work full time do not make enough money to make ends meet with one job? You want to blame it on THEM that they are working their butts off and health insurance, etc., is out of their reach now. Who in the world do you think would work in the grocery stores, clothing stores, etc. that you frequent? Your dry cleaners, etc., etc., etc. (Not to say that some of these people are not college educated.) But how dare you think that you are better than everyone else?
I normally think it's rude and stupid when someone points out when someone else has not spelled a word correctly on a blog, because most people are not paying very close attention to details in this kind of medium, but while you have your nose so high in the air, I would like to point out that you did not spell "losers" correctly. What does that make YOU?
The point STILL is that you have to quit running around half-cocked saying things that are not true and creating chaos where none should exist.
4:04 What was my answer to these comments. I wonder how that Congresswoman felt after A person HIGHLY regarded in the Republican party puts a cross -hair on her distric?
I in no way want Sarah Palin dead, she's the best thing the Dems got going for them. Seriously that was a stupid childish thing to do.
Again I wonder how many times that inspector violated someone's private property? What threat was made?
Do me one favor in the last 40 year's tell me anything that the Republican Party has done to make the United States a better place to live for the working class? What program 's have they passed that has helped the average American?
And whoever Representative Kanjorski is he should be taken to the wood shed. if not recalled.
That's the main difference between a Democrat and a Republican we shame our idiots, you guys make hero's out of them. Hey how about that Tom Delay?
Keeop hopin' someday they might let you into the dance?
I don't know what a few of you are doing instead of your comments showing up on the comment section, your turning up on my spam?
6:43 was my comment I hit wrong key.
6:43 or TERM, whoever, I find it so funny that you say that the difference between being a Democrat and a Republican is that is that you shame your idiots, and we make heroes out of them. I say the exact same thing only reversing the parties. You keep reelecting tax cheats, sex offenders (that is a special honor to Democrats), liars. You defend when Obama makes his stupid remarks like "57 states", but you vilified George Bush when he would make any misstatement. Can't have it both ways. Oh, I guess Democrats can.
The points brought up here are about the angry rhetoric and if it is the reason this caused the senseless killings. Both sides are guilty and several people here including Term are just as much to blame.
I see that most of it here is directed at the right. Who is responsible for that?? Is it the the left wing media, the Democratic Party, a Democratic politician or maybe Term himself. Examples of both sides being guilty have been posted yet only one side is being blamed. Not the strong possibility that this is just an insane man the likes of Ted Kaczynski. He even will have the same lawyer.
The differences in political agendas have very little to do with it. Everyone has their own opinion and can vote for whoever they want. I doubt my vote or yours would have prevented this happening.
The political balances have swayed dramatically in the last two elections. This is the way a democracy works. The two sides will never agree but there will always be good and bad in both sides. We have too many local elections and levies to worry about to argue over which side is better. Leave that to the voters.
Firt Rule of being an American. Never argue with a Republican their never wrong, ask one?
This is my lastcomment on this subject.Some of you want to keep the argument going.God Bless.
Someone above mentioned we have enough problems going on right here in River City let's forget what goes on in Washingt9on? Maybe I'll censor National politics? Someone said I should as blog. administrator be non-biased? Sorry it's my blog. I'll comment the way I want to.
Some have blamed one side? Read the above posts again.
I'll keep my Republican friend that want to find solutions to Painesville's problems..The ones that can work together. Badger I feel bad for you and others like you that feel your being abused by Democrats.
To some of you I think you would be a lot happier if you googled.
news and views Lake County Ohio.
Well what has the Republican Party done in the last forty for average people?
I also disagree with targeting on a web site.
Just take a look at this one.
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171
Somehow you were right, Palin did turn it into a Jewish thing.
Now compare Plain's video to what Obama said last night. Really who do you want to have as a President?
Most American's didn't even blame her. Who does she talk about? Me,me,me. I think she might have mentioned the people killed and injuried once.
Sarah Palin, in my view, is a big, bad part of what finished happening to the Republican party as it concerns their lying and bad behavior. The lying and deceiving ramped up so horribly with George W. Bush that it was shocking. Then along came Karl Rove. Bush told the lies that Rove thought up for him just as fast as he could get them out of his mouth. That, along with the courts helping him, is how he got elected twice.
Then, down the line comes Sarah Palin. Her immature, nasty, lying discourse finished putting their party so far down in the dumpster, that we are lucky we still have a country. With all that going on, added to the R's running of the country, which almost collapsed our entire country, it has been an unbelievable, horrible thing to watch. Add to that the radio talk shows, and we have had a real sordid, boiling pot of scary ridiculousness going on in this country.
But you are right, Term, you will never hear a Republican step up to stop anything wrong, or to even admit that it is wrong. When the Tea Partiers came along and helped the R's scream their lies and also followed Sarah Palin, I couldn't believe it. That woman, for one, needs to go back to kindergarten where she belongs, and she certainly does not belong in any authoratative position in any government body in this country. Hopefully now her and her nasty mouth will fade into obscurity where she belongs.
People here seem to forget the ones who lost their lives. The ones injured. It is all about a Democrat being targeted and it's a Republicans fault. Well, little Christina Green was neither. The Federal Judge was a Republican and nominated by McCain and appointed by Bush 41. Judge Roll lost his life. Several elderly also died.
Painesville came together for the young Marine, Lance Corporal David R. Baker.
Now all this nasty political rhetoric back and forth about this senseless killings in Tuscon.
Term, it is your blog and you can say anything you want. So, are you happy or proud you also contributed to all this? You seemed to choose sides too.
To 2:22: I can't speak for anyone else here, but I don't think that anyone has forgotten about the victims. At this point, nobody can even blame this senseless tragedy on the Republicans. It looks to me that this poor young man had been having mental health difficulties all his life, and somehow he didn't get the help that he needed.(As an aside, mental health help in our country is sorely lacking for those that need it, and in most instances, is drastically limited to what you can get, even if you do have insurance.)
Whether all this that has been going on and escalating in our country over the last ten years contributed to it, and which part contributed to it, I don't personally think anyone could say at this point.
One thing that is certain, however, is that it has to stop. If this horrific incident leads to that, then at least one good thing has come of this. Nobody can go back and undue it.
I think another lesson to be learned is that we do desperately need health care reforms. I don't know if this young man would have gotten help if there had been changes previously, or if he still would have slipped through the cracks. But we have to make sure that people whose illnesses are in their brains have every chance they can get to obtain the help they need also. My heart aches for the kid that did this, too.
Still waiting for an answer? What have they done for the average American? Maybe the anser is nothing?
8:20
What, you still want more entitlements?
Here's a question Term, who has camera's pointed at the business next door to his house? One clue he drives a look a
like Nazi staff car.
This guy runs arond and talks about freedom?
A proud conservative republican?
The only ones really getting Entitlements are the rich. Think TARP and President Bush.
To 8:20: Yes, I think the answer is nothing. Nothing good, anyway.
To 8:40: One thing that the R's did is to lie to get us into the war in Iraq. Let's not forget about that. One of their biggest current lies is to scream about the deficit, when it was THEM that almost collapsed our entire country, which is why we had to have all the stimulus programs. And their fellow R's and others went along with it! And they STILL are. That's how they did so well in the last election. It was no surprise to me that the R's went along with it, but they even had and have some of the independents convinced. I guess if you tell the same lie often enough, people will believe you.
To 4:13, Our resident Democrat (can tell by the writing style and rhetoric).
"I guess if you tell the same lie often enough, people will believe you." Is this what you are trying to do?
To 5:02: Which part are you disputing? That the R's got us into the war in Iraq based on a lie, or that they almost collapsed our entire country? Those two statements are absolutely true, and so is the rest of what I said. Sorry if you don't like it, but it's all true.
12:00, typical of a Democrat, you rewrite history to try to make your unfounded points.
Go ahead, 5:10, give me the facts on every single thing that I said that you do not think is true. Prove me wrong by telling me the facts that you dispute and why. If my facts are incorrect, then give me your facts that will prove that I am wrong.
With all the Republicans that visit this site. You would think at least one of them could mention something the Republican Party has done to make the lives of everyday people making less then $200,000 a better life? I have asked at least four times. Any answers?
I will assume they haven't any? So why are you idiots voting for them?
I called my republican friend who reads this site and asked them why they haven't done a post in response to the request for what republicans have done to make lives better. They informed me that they left this site many months ago and have no desire to come back. They gave me the link to another Painesville blog where they are kept informed of all things Painesville but it is more conservative leaning. I am going to check this site out today and see what it is all about. I wonder how many republicans have left your blog. I haven't seen badger post lately. I think he would have responded if he were still here.
Still no response from my question of what Republicans have done for the average American? I got the impression Term was done with this post?
Something tells me he could care less who reads the blog. be they Republicans or Democrats.
Badgers wife might have put her foot down? Badger probably has No kahonkees?
2:58pm, I don't think that is it at all. I think maybe he and the other republicans have left and don't read this site any more so they don't even know they have been challenged. I asked my friend to come back but they are happy on the new Painesville site. I will continue to go back and forth between the two.
So am I to understand if you don't agree with something posted on a site you ignore it?
I never knew it was that easy.
Have any of you bothered to read the Constitution? Or just the parts you agree with?
Again What has the Republican Party done for the average American in the last 40 years?
The quick answer, NOTHING!
They play to the top 5%.
Why don't you open that closed mind of yours and actually read what I said. They are not ignoring your questions. They don't care to be contaminated by the idiocy on this site so they don't bother to read it any more. I am going to join them. No amount of facts gets through that liberal head of yours. Goodbye! The other site is much more informative.
You want to know why the country is going broke?
SENDING U.S. JOBS ABROAD: Members defeated 184-242 a Democratic bid to use Hr 38 as a vehicle to curb the practice of U.S. firms sending jobs overseas. A yes vote was to deny federal contracts to any company that the Department of Labor finds to be outsourcing jobs.
LaTourette [R]:NO Fudge[D]: YES
Thats about it in a nutshell.
What is the other site that has been mentioned here? Curious to check it out.
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