"POWER OF LOVE"
PAINESVILLE COUNCIL MEETING 02/16/10
Pretty uneventful council meeting. The highlight was the city managers announcement that Lt.Troy Hager will become Painesvilles next Police Chief. She had five candidates who were well qualified but in the end I believe she went with his over 20 years of service and experience to the city. Congratulation Chief Hayer.
The AMP-OHIO Landfill Gas was put on 3rd reading.
The Resolution Creating Smart Grid and CDBG funds, passed
We found out to do North Ave. it will cost 1.2million dollars and the city has allotted a little over $500,000 dollars, so in my way of thinking they will get the project done half way and no one will be happy.
A presentation from the Director of the Water Pollution Control Plant was given, it was informative. My question to the city is all these directors tell us things that will save money in the utility department they work in please tell me why I never see the cost benefit in my bill?
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A lot has been mentioned here about the source of Painesvilles electric power in the coming years. We know that council has no problem investing at least 37 million dollars with AMP-OHIO in some plant only God knows where at. What if that same 37 million was invested in clean power, wind turbines for example, maybe with the city combining forces with Lake Erie College along with another nearby community.
Painesville could receive the expertise of the college who in turn could start a clean energy program with the possibility of even national funding and recognition.
I have heard many times that Painesvilles Municipal Light Plant is the third oldest in the country. I tend to believe the city leaders at that time took it upon themselves with some risk to provide power for Painesville in the next 100 plus years.
We can try new ideas or I guess we can quit making power and go into the distribution business for AMP-OHIO.
Let this site know what you think and I will try to bring the parties together on this project. So the next time a councilman tells us we have no other option maybe we can present one.
posted by terminator1 @ 8:10 AM
24 Comments
24 Comments:
Term, I think this is a fantastic idea. The wind power, especially, is just thundering out of the gate, so to speak. Especially with the WindCubes and similar inventions that we have been discussing in this blog, it just makes you wonder what the real possibilities are. Certainly not coal or nuclear in my book.
In the 1/27/10 copy of The News-Herald, they had an article talking about Strickland, and his vision for Ohio as far as energy is concerned. I'm quoting the newspaper here: Among the programs Strickland proposed was the $40 million Energy Gateway Fund, including $30 million in federal stimulus money that would go to investments in fuel cell, wind power, solar energy and energy storage industries.
Companies that seek funds would match the state investment with private dollars.
"There will come a day when Ohio will be the undisputed home of advanced energy," Strickland said.
Maybe we could be one of the "companies." Or maybe we should be teaming up with the Ohio college that has the new invention with the great small wind machine. (I thought this was the case, but cannot find the name of the college. I swear I saw that, though. I'll have to keep looking.)
It was very similar to the WindCube of Green Energy Technologies. They do not need huge spaces and create a lot more energy than the huge windmill types. I'm guessing they are a lot cheaper, too.
There was also another great article on 12/17/09 in The News-Herald "'Greening' generates energy solutions." John Loftus, executive director of the Lake County Port Authority said that Lake, Geauga, Cuyahoga and Ashtabula counties could green up in a variety of ways, whether it's solar, wind, zinc oxide or other forms of renewable energy. He said these efforts could come from the $475 million in federal funds from the "Great Lakes Restoration Initiative." (Some of the above is directly quoted from the newspaper.) He mentions the closed Coe Manufacturing property in Painesville. He says Mentor is looking at a new solar specialty improvement district. He goes on to say that they (Loftus) are working with the county and a few private folks on the potential for wind energy within Lake County.
The article also talks about a report by the nonprofit American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy, based in Washington, which says Ohio could be a good candidate for renewable energy. That group goes on to talk about Northeast Ohio, and how that could include Legacy Renewable Energy Development's proposed $120 million worth of wind farms to hook up with FirstEnergy transmission lines in Geauga County's Thompson Township.
The article goes on to say that LaTourette is also interested in all this. The article also says that the Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency and Northeast Ohio Public Energy Council are also working on green energy.
So, yes, what ELSE could we have done with the millions we wasted on a coal plant. And what should be our path now? If I can ever find that darn college, maybe we should be hooking up with them!
After the way you have treated the leaders of this city what makes you think they would even listen to your hair brain ideas?
I would like to think that they would put the people who live here in Painesville in front of any petty argument with me. I for one would think they would.
They do look out for our best interests?
Hey Term great blog on here, its at least entertaining. I heard that there is a Lake county blog that is getting attention lately do you know who is running it and where it is at? Would love to get on there. Thought you had something before linking that!
Hers what I have;
http://insidelakecounty.blogspot.
com
http://lakecountyoh.blogspot.com
Kathysak.com runs the first one I have no idea who runs the second.
Call the police dept. they should know, Just a joke.
To 2:50:
If you are saying you think that our city leaders getting us into a 50- year take-or-pay COAL PLANT DEAL, (in the year 2010, no doubt)(!), was the good idea, and that alternative energy sources, such as wind, solar, etc. are silly ideas, then I suggest you check with the rest of the United States and most likely the whole world. You will see how misguided our city leaders were and how ridiculous your statement is. Don't look now, but it could be YOU with hair in your brain!
*Wind study conducted in Painesville*
Painesville - From July through December 2000, GEO measured wind speed, direction and temperature at a height of 40 meters on city-owned property at the Painesville Wastewater Treatment Plant.
A site near Painesville, east of Cleveland, was monitored with a 40 m meteorological tower from August through December 2000. The hilltop site was located 2.5 miles from Lake Erie. Unfortunately, the test ended prematurely when the tower was blown down by a severe winter storm. GEO is presently searching for a new site to continue the Painesville test.
During the five months of the test, the average wind speed was 10.6 mph at 40 m, with the primary directions of SW, SSW, and WSW. Caution should be exercised before using these data for any sort of comparison, however, due to the seasonal nature of wind. During the time for which data are available from both the Bowling Green and Painesville sites, Bowling Green averaged 11.1 mph, versus an average wind speed of 9.8 mph at Painesville.
http://www.greenenergyohio.org/page.cfm?pageID=120
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The cube was invented by Clevelander John Fedor, co-founder and long-time owner of Masco Machine, a former automotive machine tool company. Fedor hated retirement and began looking into wind power.
Measuring 22 feet by 22 feet and just about 7 feet from front to back, Fedor's cube can generate 60 kilowatts, or 63,000 watts.
And it can do this sitting on top of a building or on a pole.
...None of these small-scale turbines are intended for use on homes, but demand is growing among businesses, industry experts say. And no wonder. They generate power at low wind speeds, the velocities most prevalent in Ohio. And there is plenty of public cash available to help buy them.
There are grants available up to $200,000 from the Ohio Department of Development, a 30 percent federal tax credit and the flood of Obama administration stimulus money. It just makes good business sense to consider them. ...
...The cube also uses what Fedor and Cironi think is unique - a shroud protruding about 3 feet out from the front of the blades. The shroud narrows as it approaches the blade, speeding up the air velocity.
The result: the turbine begins generating power at wind speeds as low as 5 mph because by the time the wind hits the blades, it's moving faster. ...
http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/05/demand_for_smallscale_wind_tur.html
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Dr. Rashidi's Wind Turbine Tower - Fenn College of Engineering, Cleveland State University
Although still a prototype, the elegant helical (spiral) tower has the potential to blow Northeast Ohio towards a bright new future in wind energy.
http://www.portofentry.com/site/root/resources/technology/8015.html
There are no new technologies, wind included, far enough advanced to supply a city with all the electric it needs.
Obama is finally figuring that out also, he is now offering government guarantees for loans to build nuclear power plants, hmmm, is one really better than the other?
50 years for coal, or 50 years for nuclear, either one will destroy our environment, one just lasts forever if it contaminates and costs a hundred times more.
To 9:20:
Obama offering loan guarantees for nuclear is very stupid. Even more stupid than it was when nuclear first came out. He is only doing this, however, to appease the Republicans. Wish he would stand his ground, and not let them sway his decision on that. That makes me very unhappy. The fact that wind cannot power whole towns yet, if that is still true with every application of wind everywhere, is not an entirely critical issue right now. It is developing so fast, that it probably will soon. Look what has happened already. These new, small wind machines are magnificent, and who knows what will be available in a year, not only with wind, but with other technologies as well. Almost everyone is on the case. And it takes years for those nuclear plants to get licensing, etc., so hopefully by the time that happens, it will all BLOW OVER, so to speak.
I think Obama reason was more then to appease Republicans a number of Democrats use electricity also, me included. We will need a bridge between old technology and new.
I would rather have a few nuke plants guaranteed by the Federal government than a coal powered plant guaranteed by the likes of the people of Painesville.
10:57 would you rather have a nuke plant or a coal plant? Or maybe just sit in the dark?
Rome wasn't built in a day.
This is 10:57:
I would rather not have a coal plant or a nuke plant, and I do not think we will need either. Alternative technology is developing at the speed of light. Give it a year and see what happens. No need for anyone to panic at this point and to be worried about sitting in the dark, let alone be building nuke or coal plants in the year 2010. I think a year from now, Term, we will be even more amazed at what is happening in the field of energy technology.We need to see where this will all go. The world is an amazing place right now as far as this technology is concerned. God (or whatever or whomever you believe in, even if it's just the earth), must be very pleased to see us starting to use his earth in a responsible way. There are so many companies and government entities working on the issue of alternative energy, that it is starting to come together surprisingly fast. Even many of our colleges are working on this issue and developing ideas and products. Really, I would be very surprised if we end up having to rely on coal or nuclear for very much longer. I was against nuclear from the beginning. It has turned out just as stupid as I thought it was going to. If even one more nuclear plant is built, I will think America is very dumb, indeed. If I absolutely had to choose between coal and nuclear, I would choose coal for sure. I don't think it is going to have to come to that, though, I really don't.
I have been looking for the wind machine that I saw on TV that was designed by a Cleveland college. The information that 9:16 provided is phenomenal, although still not the one I saw. Isn't it fantastic that so many of the colleges are also working on this issue.
Note: I previously wrote that I would -- if push came to shove -- prefer coal to nuclear. I want to clarify that, though. I in no way meant that I think the deal that Painesville City admisistration got us into was a good or desirable one.
I used to think the same way until I watched a video on strip mining to get coal this way is plain nuts. Not even mentioning the by product surry that comes with it. I would prefer nether. I meant to say that its going to take some time.
How many years do you thinkn our power plant has?
I don't have any knowledge about how many years our power plant has. I was going to ask you that. Do you know? Also, do we have any idea when they think our power needs will outgrow our current system?
I don't think it's going to take as long as we think it's going to to replace the coal and nuclear plants with better alternatives. Hope I am correct. I agree with you about the strip mining. I may have heard that there are efforts to stop that, at least in some places. I don't know what's better, though, when you consider we have no place to even put the nuclear waste that we are creating with the nuclear plants, let alone the high cost (didn't they promise to SAVE people money on their electric bill?), let alone the threat of terrorist attacks on these plants.
You know, it just occurred to me, Term, that soon it may come to pass that every business (if not home) will be generating their own power with their own rooftop wind machines. (Wind machines is MY terminology, and probably not a correct one, but I'm not sure what else to call them as a whole.) I'll bet in a matter of a year or two, that some businesses will be doing that, at the very least. Then Painesville may not even need all the power they think they are going to need. What do you think?
Forget about technology to generate with wind, it is already here, the problem is how to store enough power so it is available when the wind is not.
I just watched the 2/16/10 council meeting on TV. Seems the Closest Responders issue is all but gone. Councilman Flock, who is supposedly so concerned about the issue that he has been brought to impassioned pleas and tears on more than one occassion, said nary a word again. Unless he has been working behind the scenes, and has just not chosen to enlighten the citizens, it appears he has done nothing again. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.
And what of the new guy? I was hoping that he would follow up and get a handle on this, but nothing.
By now, we should have had someone besides McMahon, Hada, etc. have a conversation with each potential community and report back to us as to what their history has been concerning this issue with Painesville, where do they stand now as it concerns communicating with us on this issue and then possibly working with us if it looks like that would be called for and mutually beneficial.
We have not yet even had anyone report to us about the three previous studies that have been done. If not for the contributors to this blog, we wouldn't even have THAT info yet.
Does anyone know if anyone has done anything on this issue that I don't know about?
I am not privy to any conversations, but I can tell you councilman Flock has had meetings with other community leaders about this subject.
Believe me, he nor I will let this subject fall by the wayside. Ever wonder wher the city manager came up with the $100,000 figure? I do.
Contact your council person and the at large ones and explain you want answers.
Councilman Flock has had meetings with other community leaders about the Closest Responders subject? Without proof, I do not believe that. I would want him to report to us exactly who he talked to, when did he have these conversations, what did the conversations entail, etc. And there should be no need for any citizens to be calling council people at this time. The information should have already been forthcoming during one of the last two council meetings, at the very least. It should have been detailed with all follow-up intentions included.
I do believe that you (Term) will not let the subject rest until it is remedied. Are you sure you do not want to run for council. Too bad Murphy is not in there. Those meetings would have already taken place, we would have had all the history of previous communications with each entity, and would know what our next possible steps were and with whom.
And yes, I do wonder where McMahon got the $100,000 figure. Out of the air, as far as we know, since we have not been privy to any of the information that they have gathered.
I have told you the truth, its your business to believe it or not. I will tell you one more time, NOTHING happens in Painesville without four votes. If someone promises you anything, to do anything, ask them if they have the four votes?
I believe 8:49 is a typical Painesville resident, please 8:49 this is not an attack, but a question I propose to you. Councilman Flock and Term are the only two people I have heard even bring up first responders at a council meeting. Where are the residents who come on this site and want action? Where are the residents of Cobblestone? They will fill council chambers if something bad happens. You can count on that fact. The rest of us cannot expect two or three people to run the ball for us all the time. Show your support.
To criticize the people will not solve anything
Has anyone read the news-herald wedsite? The comments on the new chief seems that the people in town are fedup with whats going on in town, yet no one complains to council? Do you think the people who live in Solon or Concord would put up with all this crap.
We need a new administration and fast!
If councilman Flock has had conversations with other entities, I will say again, why hasn't he informed us of exactly what they were and what was said. He hasn't said a word about them. Four votes are not needed to make the calls, and four votes are not needed to inform us on exactly what he has accomplished about this issue. It's just more of the same -- he has done nothing that I can see or hear. And I am not expecting one or two citizens to do it all. I am expecting our council people to do it. Flock is the one who keeps crying about it. I believe that he has told Term that he has had these conversations. I believe that Term has reported that honestly. I do not believe that he has had these conversations, however, and I will not believe it until I am told by Flock the dates and times and names of the people he talked to. And again, why has he not reported on that at the council meetings. More of the same, which is nothing. Any normal adult who had that job and who had done work on that issue, would be reporting it openly and intelligently at the council meetings, at the very least.
I have known Mr. Flock over five years and I have found him to be be an honest person.
I don't know what to tell you, just watch and find out.
I found out another person was killed along the railroad tracks intown. We for some reason have had a rash of these, what can be done to stop the mayhem?
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