*** BULLETIN ***
The City of Painesville has just hired Mr. Anthony J. Carson, Jr. for the vacant city manager position.
more information to come.......
Lets all wish Mr. Carson to Painesville!
In other council news you are all the proud owners of half of a 22 year-old fire truck. I must have missed something it was voted on first reading 7-0 . Wonder what the rush was?
Council-President Hada scheduled a work session for May 28,2013 to promote a safety and/or a road levy.
posted by terminator1 @ 4:38 PM
49 Comments
49 Comments:
They bought the truck with what? good looks?
No more levies. Are these people insane? Are the citizens going to get a chance to vote on this, or will it be up to council? If I have a vote, I vote no. This is ridiculous already. Next they'll want a levy so we can breathe Painesville's air--which stinks from the sewer plant, by the way.
12:43 You will be given the opportunity to vote in November if they decide on a levy. Then again wonder if they might put it on a August special election? Been there done that.
While you're voting vote out some of these council people!
Watched this weeks council meeting. First no one who voted for this truck has even seen this truck. The people who researched the truck have no idea how many hours or miles the truck has on it? Joe Hada must be getting a commission on this deal. First he tells us the "experts" have evaluated this equipment and all most in the same sentence claims the present truck that also must be evaluated by experts was the wrong purchase.
The worst thing that can happen? You decide.
Doesn't any of them remember what happens if you don't do good diligence?
I'm with 5:19. Is there an election for some of the city council members in November?
5:52 there is an election this November for the three at large council people.
Lori DiNallo, Jim Fodor, Joseph Hada.
Don't expect much of a change a candidate this year will need 192 signatures to just get on the ballot.
This plus the fact what else will be on the ballot? No national, state candidates running this year expect a low turnout.
The National Fire Protection Association recommends fire apparatus should be replaced every twenty years. This is what Boardman did.
Now Painesville in all it's wisdom replaces a 21 year old vehicle with a 22 year old vehicle that they will share ownership with another community?
All this in fifteen minutes? Without Concord or any firemen present?
I agree with you that the firemen should have been in on the purchase, especially after the chiefs claim that the last truck purchase was a mistake.
If you firemen support JaHADA in the next election remember how important your input in this conversation was.
Typical Painesville.
Can't understand your complaining. Even your buddy Flock voted YES! for the 23 year old truck.
BTW, just so you know, it wasn't Boardman but Boardman TWP.
IOW, a small township, with trustees, apparently handle their finances better than our City.
My thought is that if the Chief knows that the trucks have a 20 year life, the smart person (or Council) would start saving for the next one as soon as they get the new one. After all, it is pretty tough to come up with $800K at one time but it should be easier when spread over 20 years. Isn't that what you have to do with your personal finances?
Does this save money? I sure hope so BUT it puts the City farther behind than it was.
Even if the Chief's feeling that this truck will give us 10 years, will we have the funds for a new one then? Not at this rate.
2:43 I have no idea why councilman Flock voted to purchase that truck. It surprised me after the Chief didn't even know the mileage on the truck to be purchased.
Maybe he's finally come around to thinking like the rest of them?
I'm as surprised as you seem to be.
4:27 Yes it does now we will have to replace a 32 year old truck.
Is John Murphy planning on running for council?...I sure hope so. John, are you out there, or Term, do you know? Does anyone know of other people who may run?
If I recall correctly...
1.Firemen are on a train FIREFIGHTERS fight fires. Get it right.
2.The mileage was documented, look closer.
3.This is a combined effort between three communities. It's called "sharing" (regionalization).
4.There was not one chief but three involved in this process (and they took the time to drive down to visually inspect it)
5.The firefighters are not management. Those types of decisions are up to discretion of the chiefs THEN...
6.It goes to the trustees/council.
MR FLOCK APPROVED IT.
Its done stick a fork in it and MOVE ON.
1. O.K. train so why wouldn't you want input from the firefighters?
2. I didn't see any documentation in the mangers statement? Plus when asked in council the chief didn't even have an approximate number.
3. Sharing of three communities. Why are only two paying for it? Please tell us who number three is?
4. Please don't tell me the third chief was the Boardman chief?
5. Did you hear the chiefs statement that the last aerial truck purchased "with good intentions" but is not suitable in Painesville. What management team decided on that purchase? Maybe input from, oh say people that might have to use it?
6. Lets all hope this deal works out for everyone. Because if it doesn't some ones life in Painesville/Concord might hang in the balance.
Yes it a done deal, still don't understand the rush.
12:54
A couple of points you raise need to be addressed.
1) Where is the mileage of either truck documented? The Chief quite clearly says that he did NOT know the mileage on either vehicle.
2) Regarding your points 1 and 5, the Chief is the person authorized to speak for the department, no question.
However, listen carefully and you will hear Councilperson DiNallo say that the Safety Committee had two firemen in attendance but that they did not speak on the subject. It doesn't take a genius to understand why this would be. It might be that their opinion is NOT that of their Chief but they do value their job. Would YOU speak out?
For them you have to think that if the Chief, the Council President, and the City administration have made up their minds to get this truck, why would they say anything? It is/was a done deal.
All Term is asking is, why the hurry? This could have had the "required" three readings and would have looked much cleaner. It amazes me at the number of times that our Council suspends the rules to suit a particular agenda. Suspension of rules should be a rarity, not the norm.
What hurry? How do you know how long this process has been in the works? From the time the idea was introduced, driven down to see it, discussed among all communities then brought to council. You people are never satisfied. If something gets tabled or goes through all readings you complain about that too. If I work at McDonald's do you think the manager should ask my opinion on remodeling the building? Should he ask all the employees? Better yet, maybe the President at corporate should have a sit down with everyone for their thoughts before moving forward. Seriously, ask 30 firefighters opinions before doing something/everything? Nothing would EVER get done. That's why we have administrators, department heads and council don't be so dense.
Get Real, I know of ONE council person who didn't find out about the deal until last Friday and voted on it Monday night. As we have all heard in the past... The administration just presents the resolution. In the end the final decision rests on council. Again what was their hurry. If this deal turns out to be a failure who gets the blame?
Your analogy with a McDonalds employee I believe was a poor choice.
I firefighter life as well as a citizens life could be in danger.
"That's why we have administrators, department heads, and councils." I guess their money management shows us best as to why we are even in the process of purchasing a 22 year old vehicle in the first place? Poor fund management by all three?
Thanks to your stupid McDonalds analogy I guess from now on when I see a firefighter In the back of my mind I will think..."DO you want fries with that? I'm dense?
OK, so substitute ANY type of job in my analogy. Does Dr. Hanlon interview every employee when he needs to make a decision? NO. Again he is appointed and put in charge. Does a principal have to go to him everytime something needs done? No, the principal is in charge and they have the brains to make certain decisions and they do. As far as only receiving the information of a Friday and being prepared on a Monday night, that's his job. How many times have I seen him muddle around up there asking silly questions because he didn't read his packet and was unprepared. If 2+ days weren't enough to read it maybe he shouldn't have voted for it. Then again by going ahead on it leads me to believe he had time to read and thought it was a good thing. Mr. Veto man finally said yes!
So please what is the reason for three readings? I for one would like people to spend some time before they vote in a 15 minute span. He's not the only one muddling around or texting or God knows what else they might be daydreaming about.
I hope your right but I would have been more comfortably if I would have heard from the first responders and understood the big hurry. What's that haste makes waste'
How long does a manufacturer have to keep parts on hand?
The chief clearly states the reason for expediting the process was because there were other interested parties and Boardman was holding it for Painesville/Concord. Was that not a good enough reason?
Ask that "one councilperson" who didn't know about this until Friday what committees he serves on. I bet you he would have known earlier if he attended his subcommittee meetings.
6:09 You or the Chief must really be naïve. Tower 71 has been on the market for over a year? Remember Boardman Twp. has a rule to only keep equipment 20 years. Now there holding it for us don't let this deal slip away. I would love to sell you a used car.
No..It's not a good enough reason to spend $52,000 in fifteen minutes.
The safety committee could have emailed the other council people about their decision?
And who appoints council people to committees in the first place.
You know I really hope this doesn't blow-up in our faces but you hide behind anonymous and if the goes bad you can crawl back into your rabbit hole and pretend nothing happened. Why don't you attend the next council meeting and thank council for their wise decision? Long wait?
Is there REALLY a huge line of cities waiting to buy a 22 year old piece of fire equipment?? Especially in light of the fact that national standards call for replacement at 20 years? Really?
On a related note, since a truck like this (new) costs about $800K, wouldn't it be wise to budget $40K per year for 20 years to make sure you can buy one that meets the standard the next time around? After all, would you rather budget for it or have to pull money out of thin air?
How can 6:44 thank themselves? There probably one of the jackasses sitting at the front table.
1:59
WTH??? Please explain because I sure don't understand you.
BTW, I believe you mean "they're" not "there".
Budget? Budget $$$ every year? What planet do you live on? There isn't any money = there isn't any money to budget.
DUH, And why not? What have you been spending all this money on in the last 30 years?
DUH is apparently the correct name for you.
In case you don't understand the concept, a budget is nothing more that a document to show where the proposed funds will go. They can be moved or changed as required.
You seem to miss the point which I raised with the question "After all, would you rather budget for it or have to pull money out of thin air?"
In the grand scheme of a city budget, $40K per year isn't easy but it isn't a mountain. $800K is impossible.
Tell me smart guy, which manner makes more sense.
Furthermore Term is right. The City administrators know that new equipment has to be bought. Why are they kicking the can down the road and avoiding the real problem, POOR fiscal management?
Part of where all of our money goes is because we never pay anything off. They just refinance, refinance, bundle and refinance. I'd like the new city manager to look at that, because that is all McMahon did.
DUH : you must be on city council. YOU should not be that naive on this planet... this is what happen;s with the WRONG GUIANCE. the harry reid of painesville won,t let the council members think on their own. (JOE HADA } example look at our neighbor concord many more residents, cannot ask for income tax , because it is a township. and still out provides the residents compaired to painesville city. YET WE HAVE 7 MILLION INCOME TAX DOLLARS MORE... why don't we have any money DUH where does it go???
WHY do we need a levy??? WHY can't we manage our current 12 million general fund budget BETTER ??? residents of painesville wake up, a new city manager can only do what joe gurley,,joe hada,, will let him do. [ the names not cap. ]
Painesville government acts like your children's allowance. The more you give them the more they ask for. Along with never being satisfied. Then when you think about that pretty much somes up all government. They must show us good faith before we even think about giving them another dime.
Wonder if it was asked of the voters if they wanted to put a million dollars on Main St. what would have been the answer? Again let's invest close to 50 million in a coal power plant in Southern Ohio? Thanks at least that one only cost 2.1 million to get out of again without even a 9 volt battery. Wonder what the vote would have been?
Presently you have a suitable Fire Truck, let's dump a year newer truck for one to be shared with someone else?
Need a city manager at over $140,000 lets give her an assistant at $90,000?
Pay how much to maintain Cemetery property?
Now think about it how many of these did Painesville Twp. get involved in?
Does Joe Gurley have a contract with the city???? If not why not??? TIME FOR A REVIEW DON'T YOU THINK???
WHY should the safety committee email Mr Flock about their decision? He is on that committee, he should have been there to ask all the questions he had then, not save it for grandstanding at council.
Who appoints council people to committees in the first place? You of all people should know the answer and if you don't you buds are just a phone call away.
8:17 By Painesville City Charter. The Law Director is appointed by the City Manager. Don't see that happening in the near future. That won't happen if Mr. Carson wants to keep his position.
4:55 When and who appointed councilman Flock to the Safety Committee? He has never attended a meeting and no one has questioned him?
good god you nitwits
If the ladder truck is needed so be it ... it's a heck of a bargain
It's not used several times a day, probably will never be used except for parades, but it's there just in case.
Seems councilman Flock is one of three council liaison to the safety committee.
My guess after the way he wasn't even informed that the former city manger dropped coverage of Cobblestone Condo. by an agreement with Grand River F.D. If he didn't have to know about that why bother? Just my guess.
THIS IS WHY painesville city is what it is, the manager of the city, is not allowed to function. HOW DO WE GET A DIFFERENT LAW DIRECTOR??? someone from council should warn the new guy BEFORE HE MOVES TO A TRAP AND CAN'T FUNCTION. no wonder the townships are better than us.
NO WONDER WE ARE IN LIMBO. are you saying we are stuck with GURLEY no matter what, term??
5:45
Nit wits??
That's the best you have?
Besides the fact that the National Standards for Fire Departments calls for replacement every 20 years (which the Chief freely admits) there is the actual age of the unit itself.
Let me ask you this. Assume you have a 21 year old car. Now someone comes to you and says that for x dollars, you can buy a "nicer" car BUT it is older than what you have AND you will only own half of it. That is your idea of a bargain?
Is that the kind of car buyer you are?
You say the truck won't be used several times a day? With two communities using it, are you sure about that? If you are really lucky, you will never be the one it is called for.
And we are the "nit wits"?
7:23 Just to clarify this a little.
Every time Concord calls for mutual aid Painesville always sends the present aerial truck and a crew of four so I don't believe the truck will see anymore use than the present one.
The chief also claimed that the truck will take 12 minutes to respond to say Tri Point.
Mr. Fodor email:
I would also like to add that Concord Twp. also reviewed the fire truck and found it to be a deal that they wanted to go in on.
The truck is being purchased and about $20,000 of improvements are also taking place. The total price is just a over $100,000. The cost of a new truck is well over $800,000.
This truck also allows more than one firefighter to go up the ladder at once and also allows for more water to be directed to the fire.
If you would like to discuss this further please call me at 354.5018.
Jim Fodor
10:16 I'm have noticed that recently Mr. Fodor is more inclined to budget funds as so we don't run into some of the situation's we have had in his first term. $8.00 surcharges on water bills, levies for streets as well as safety equipment. He is trying to get council to plan ahead. Presently everyone on council seems to claim poor mouth. We need surcharges and levies. At the same time they continue to blow-up the city budget.
Presently I would oppose any safety or road levy. The city has shown no intentions of controlling present city spending as well as current funds. funds. Sorry.
Read the post about the income tax passed 30 years ago. I'll name you off the cuff two things that have changed. The city picked up your garbage in 1982. and the EMS never charged you for transportation. Think about it. What are you presently paying waste management? What does it cost for a trip to Tri-Point. Where did those city savings go?
You opposed the last safety type levy that was put on. I believe it had something to do with the charter? I don't remember all the details. You claimed you would vote for a levy if it wasn't being done the way it was the last time. Now you are going to backpedal again with your NO vote. It's not that you can't make up your mind, you just want to keep saying no. Then you still complain that nothing is getting done. It's a vicious cycle with you pulling others down with you by your misleading thoughts.
12:18 Yes I opposed the Charter change. First your property taxes could have been able to gone up without your vote due to the charter change.
Second let's say to make it simple if you vote for a safety levy that raises $500,000 a year. and you look back and the city spends say presently $5,000,000 dollars on safety. Why can't they make sure the city sends the $500,000 to be spent on safety and then when they make budget appropriations they now give safety only $4,500,000 out of general fund and then you get an award for your budget. Everything balances. Now where did the original $500,000 go?
Now if you want to pay more money in taxes be my guest. Me in the last 5 or 6 years I've seen and heard to much. The only ones being mislead are the city residents.
They are being mislead by you. When will someone come after you for slander?
8:13 My address is in the book.
Explain who is they are?
to 8:13 post, When is someone going to ask council why they continue to mis-use city in-come tax dollars??? WE NEED A PUBLIC MEETING.
Don't we have a public meeting? Twice a month? Called council meetings? Ask away there.
I guess they will come after him when he's caught in a lie?
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