"GAMES PEOPLE PLAY" joe south
"Never meaning what they say."
Below are two articles from Washington County, Illinois. Where our investment in Prairie State Energy Campus just happens to be. As you read the articles, remember these people were promised that no coal ash would be placed in Washington County. What happened Prairie State?
As Painesville is a part owner in this project, were we aware that this promise was made and then broke? 720 acres.... that will have deposited on it are the remains of "clean coal."
How will this end? Want to bet on another lawsuit? Although you will never get charged for this directly, you can bet AMP-OHIO will include it in their bill sorta like the "power factor". It's included but you will not see it directly.
As you read these articles, you have to wonder what was promised to Painesville, and will they change those conditions?
A lot of comments have been made on the business practices of local businessman Bob Gibbs. I can assure you he never deposited coal ash 250 feet tall to cover 720 acres. Tell me who is showing man's inhumanity to man now?
Get into the game Painesville!
I guess we're all "Gamers" now?
Washington County Finance Committee keeps the public out of landfill discussions
June 25, 2012 / admin / No comments
NASHVILLE, IL — The Washington County Board has held a series of finance committee meetings to discuss the proposed new Near Field Landfill for the Prairie State coal plant, but has closed the meetings to the public.
Documents received through a Freedom of Information Act request show that the committee closed the meetings on April 30, May 7, May 24, and June 7. Another finance committee meeting is scheduled for tonight, with a meeting of the full board scheduled for tomorrow (Tuesday,June 26, at 7 p.m.). County residents are circulating petitions in opposition to the proposed landfill.
— Dale Wojtkowski
Please attend Washington County Board meeting about coal ash landfill
June 24, 2012
Please Attend!
Special meeting of the Washington County Board
Tuesday, June 26th at 7p.m.
Washington Coounty Courthouse in Nashville
After stating on the record in 2005 that there would be No coal ash landfill in Washington County, Prairie State is now asking for a permit from the Washington County Board to dump coal ash onto a 720 acre tract adjacent to the plant just south of the Biddleborn church. This toxic ash pile will eventually be over 250 feet tall with nothing to prevent contaminated dust from blowing onto property and into homes near and far. And, contaminated water leaching into creeks and ground water will always be a threat.
Please attend the meeting on June 26 at 7 p.m. and/or call your county board representative to tell them:
1) You don’t want a toxic waste dump in Washington County.
2) Don’t sell out the residents of Washington County. Oppose the coal ash landfill.
3) Prairie State already has two permitted sites which are NOT near homes.
Please consider going the extra mile and notify your friends and neighbors in Washington County about this important issue.
Thank you so much.
If you have questions please contact Dale Wojtkowski
posted by terminator1 @ 4:52 PM
23 Comments
23 Comments:
500 Acre flyash dump next to Painesville township park.. Next to Lake Erie.. Gibbs own this?
Don't know if it's true. But now according to you, we are an equal to Gibbs, way to go?
I believe CEI owns the fly ash dump and gets permits via the state of Ohio. It is also my understanding that fly ash is used as aggregate in some concrete products.
brew but your missing the point Peabody, and Prairie State on the record promised no coal ash in Washington County? What changed, the showed the proposed area where the ash would be sent now they want to change?
This is how this bunch operates, promises and then changes to the promises.
Still believing in such a thing as clean coal?
Do any of you know how large 720 acres happens to be? In square miles? 250 feet tall.
Your kidding
10:08 I do believe it's over a square mile. Anyone know for sure?
Term, I get your point that the leaders threw themselves in with a bunch of shady operators. Mine was just that fly ash does have uses and more are continuing to be developed.
No there is no such thing as clean coal nor is there any end all energy solution out there. All technolgies have there downside be it nuclear (contamination), wind and solar(wildlife migration, habitat destruction, visual pollution and to date lack of efficiency).
brew, I understand, how much longer can we continue this way? Coal for the next 40 50 years? I don't think so.
The solutions are out there should we look back or look forward?
AMP, Peabody, Prairie State .. they've been lying all along.
AMP is not responsible for any part of it, all the colllective communities are.
And when the feds put on more stringent emmissions controls in 4 or 5 years and close it down, all the communities will be paying for it for decades to come.
Galion and all the other communities came to the AMP CRAPS table and lost.
I think in 40-50 years, we will probably all have our own energy generator sitting on our roofs. They'll probably be very small by then, and what we have now will be so outdated, it will seem archaic. But according to Hada and McMahon, we'll be oh-so-lucky because we will still own a coal plant that will still be costing us millions.
The citizens told these stupid people not to do it. Now WE are the ones paying. We need investigations into ALL of this. We need to get out of these contracts. Do you think there is any hope of that?
5:45/5:36 I believe it will be less then 20 years. The bad thing it will be China who will develop it.
Look calling anyone stupid will not solve the problem. I believe our leaders as well as in many other communities became complacent and somewhat lazy. Trusting organizations that in the past they had no problems with. What could go wrong?
Due to the costs Painesville will incur I have lost all faith in the city manager.
Now can these communities solve this? I doubt it. Some feel it would be political suicide to admit they made a mistake. AMP-OHIO, Peabody also knows this.
Painesville residents were shown in the News-Herald in the story they did on Classic Park...Was it worth it? Eastlake
This is what can happen when a community stops paying attention to whats going on around them, and leaves the decisions to a small group of people.
I'm willing to bet in Painesville less then 30 people even knew this deal was going down.
THis is Lebanon, Missouri .. another community like Galion and Painesville.
MoPEP is equal to AMP there...
Town of 14,000 citizens owes 56,000,000 dollars on Prairie State plus interest, plus the cost of the power from the plant.
http://www.lebanondailyrecord.com/opinion/columnists/columnist_one/article_ab348cf0-b294-11e1-9ec3-001a4bcf6878.html
Galion and Painesville owe the for the same thing .. albeit 45,000,000 is the starting figure.
Same story there, no public discussion with the community, no pros and cons on doing this and the negatives this could inflict.
This is 5:45 to Term 6:07:
Yes, but those 30 people who knew were speaking out and telling them and telling them not to do it, and that it was a bad, bad deal. That's what makes me so mad, and what makes me call them stupid. They were just beligerent, thinking that they knew what was best and that they were going to do it anyway. I remember how Hada said he "proudly" voted for it--wasn't that the thing he did that on? He did it as a real na-na-na-na-na to the people who were speaking out against it.
Makes me wonder if there was a signing bonus or something.
At any rate, the citizens that knew about it were smart enough to know it was a stupid idea, so Hada/McMahon were being told repeatedly not to do it, and did it anyway. It's not like they didn't have a heads-up.
Term,
I don't believe that we are relying coal alone for the next 30-40 years, its an evolution. Coal plants today are much cleaner and efficient than a genration ago and we are phasing various alternative energy methods. We as a country (and world) need to stay focused on continuing this evolution of energy sources. There are some amazing things being worked on but they will take time and money to develop into large scale, economic alternatives.
There is no way where we can just say no we will not burn coal anymore, but there is technology there to improve that alternative along with all the others. The fact that we are focused on this issue will eventually provide the solution but it will take time and the answer will be some combination of technologies based upon resources available.
Just look at landfills, 10-15 years ago they were flaring off gases, now they build the landfills with systems to harvest the gas and use it as an evnergy source. NOVA Chemical on Hardy Road obtains 60% of its energy needs from landfill gas from the Lake County landfill.
6:57 Seems people are waking up? Wonder what will happen next?
Thanks Lebanon.
brew, So the solution to Painesville's energy needs were these "take and pay" projects?
The reason no private utility company seem to be build new plants and unloading new ones like Fremont on AMP-OHIO there is an over abundance of electric power.
Sorry brew AMP-OHIO sucked Painesville in along with many more communities.
Tell me the city manager control electric rates in the city along with the final say. What makes you believe she knows anything more about electric power than the average Joe? She presented these deals to council, WHY??? even recomended them.
7:13 Who did you think Hada would listen to? Sandy Miller, Richard Tibbits, anyone who got their three minutes,including myself?
He listened to the city manager, AMP-OHIO and his own knowledge of sitting on council for almost 30 years at that time. The deal was done long before it came to the people. All of us could have talked formonths . He lead that council on buying into that deal. Finally Andy Flock looked into these deals and couldn't believe we were doing this. We needed more people looking into the contracts and fewer listening to people in power? Think they would vote the same way again?
Wonder what all this does to the council-president and city managers
opinion?
Soon the chickens will come home to roost.
January 2013 is when the chickens really come no more mamby pamby interest payments ...
FULL BILL IS DUE - PAY UP !!
Term, where in my responses are you interpreting that I am defending the AMP Ohio deal, personally I don't think there is a single person in council or the administration capable of understanding these type of contracts. Please point out in any of my posts I am defending that deal or the manager. Nowhere did I advocate getting invoved in "take and pay" projects
My point is that you accused me of believing in "clean coal", which I never said. I am merely saying we cannot just say that tomorrow we don't use coal anymore, as we do not at this moment in time have an effective alternative to eliminate coal.
Not soon enough!
brew I didn't intend to claim you were defending anything, you and I are really in agreement. My response is to those who read this so it can be explained to them.
Please don't think for a second I am accused you of anything. If you think I was I'm sorry I just wrote the responses wrong. At the time my point to just clarify your points.
Term, Ok I get you now nad your frustration. i guess that was my point I thought I was largely agreeing with you but just correcting a couple of misconceptions on coal.
All the associated communities will be FINANCIALLY responsible for this dump as well ... FOREVER.
Take one look at the TVA dump that collapased in Tennesse costing hundreds of milion to clean up.
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/dec2008/2008-12-23-091.asp
Remember Painesville ... the WIZARDS on city council know what a great deal this is ... don't dare question their wisdom and know all.
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