"DROPS OF JUPITER" train
Tell me?
Madpotter hit it right on the head. Were those people all at the fund raiser to promote Katie or were they there to defeat Hal?
Now, let's recap and count. Did Hal vote for an $85,000 assistant manager sight unseen? Strike 1. Trying to close a business next to his house? Strike 2. To be fair, he's had a bunch of foul tips thrown his way too. Compare Hal to others on council. He has a monthly meeting... usually with a guest. I have never heard of any Ward II resident not getting a response from him on an issue. He voted pretty much with council on most issues this past four years... except when he was given the one chance to vote against AMP-OHIO AMGS he voted against the city proceeding with the deal. Just two people... Flock and Werner...voted against the AMP contract.... if two more on council would have voted that way, the city of Painesville would be over $2,000,000.00 richer today. Something to think about. He also pushed the city not to except the Martricular Card and that turned into a harder battle then even I thought it would be.
Is it because of Hal's condescending, arrogant attitude? His constant pontification where he feels he must preach or lecture? One reason to re-elect him is he drives Hada, Gurley, and McMahon nuts at a council meeting.... and that does add some entertainment value to meetings (even though he drives me nuts sometimes too).
Maybe the backlash can be attributed to administrative elitism. Could it be because he only drives a school bus? He himself doesn't seem to embrace his profession. Is there an attitude of "Who is he to think he can sit on Painesville City Council ...just a lowly bus driver?".
Do I feel bad for Hal? A little. If you feel compelled to vote against him... do it for his job performance on council, not his personality.
Please don't interpret this post as a personal endorsment of Mr. Werner. I am only trying to understand the apparent administration backlash against him when he voted 99% their way.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
And now I'm off to Harvey Principal Martin's first community meeting. I'll post my take on it later today.
posted by terminator1 @ 2:32 PM
36 Comments
36 Comments:
If Hada, Hach, Horvath and McMahon want Hal Werner out, then we had better be D### sure to keep him in.
That's about it in a nut-shell. Can't stand the way he speaks to people. He pretends he's of a higher stature then he is. Bye, Bye Hal.
RE-ELECT HAL
He pretends he's of a higher stature then he is.
wow sounds just like Katie, she is the same way......
Not sure where to post this comment. Feel free to move it wherever you feel it is pertinent. I went to the new Ohio State Treasurer's web site for the transparency database. I looked at the salaries of Painesville City teachers. Oh my gosh! Please don't ever tell me how poorly these teachers are paid. Take a look. And on top of that they pay very little for health care and receive many other benefits.
I can't move comments but it's fine here. Just so everyone knows it's not just Painesville teachers.
This whole system has to change. A good start wage freezes and paying a larger share of their hospitalization. The Painesville employees took a step in the right direction this week.
Some will say to little to late.
WOW, term must be getting a little senile.
I thought this was the whole purpose of the senate bill. To bring some cost control to benefits and health care costs. Wages aren't part of it.
What I find amusing is, people who never studied in school, never went to college and never learned a trade, now are upset that people that did all those things, are making more money then them!
6:25 Sorry, I disagree when you take "collective bargining" away it affects everything. Yes it does the things you mentioned but the final arbitrator is the city council, or school board whoever is in charge of that governing body.
Teachers union asks for a 4% raise school administration/board says no raise. No raise.
8:55 Why would you then chose a profession where the above mentioned people hold the purse strings? Not a wise career move if your in it for the cash. No one begged or forced anyone to chose the profession their in. From what I have seen government workers have great wages and benefits.
If the state, and local communities don't have the funds due to unemployment, loss of wages ect.. Do you really expect them to give you more money?
Going on the site www.ohiotreasurer.com
I learned many interesting facts. The recession started in 2008 my sons teacher made. $45,261 dollars that year last year $53,945?
In the same time my husband and I averaged a 15% pay cut. What's wrong with this picture?
Since 47% of American don't pay income tax, that means a lot of people vote for higher taxes for those that do pay. If it doesn't cost me any or they can get more benefits or tax deductions, they will vote for anything attitude. Bottom line, until more taxes hit home, no one complains. You can't support the the teacher's union and vote against a school levy too. Shop at Walmart for Chinese junk and wonder where all our jobs went. Complain about Wall Street and then complain your retirement investments have tanked. Blame one party when the other party hasn't done much better, or vice versa.
One thing I do know is that I don't believe everything a politician says. At the same time, I don't believe everything a union rep says either. If you do then you can buy Painesville's swamp land.
Now how many corporations don't pay income tax? [ I've been told their people] Jobs? Are we that dumb? The jobs are gone American business took them to China and everywhere else. Poor trade policies if you ask me. Americans must demand American made goods. Teachers included The thing about SB 5 that confuses me the most it wasn't government workers that drove us into a recession it was Wall St. and the Big Banks, Fanny, Freddie ect. Public sectors jobs have to come in line with the rest of the American work force.
You are right not to believe anyone everyone seems to be self-serving.
TERM, did you post somewhere about the Harvey community meeting? I'm interested to hear how it went.
Term, 5:43 PM "Do you really expect them to give you more money??--
Not more money, but more then the underachievers make! And, I am talking about, the people who never studied in school, never went to college and never learned a trade.
Funny thing corporation and unions don't vote. It's the people. So, I stand by my statement, what's in it for me.
7:27 Just posted.
10:33 As I checked out the Ohio Treasurers web site it appears to me that teachers seem to be well compensated, that's just my opinion. I guess some elementary grade teachers salaries of $79,000 plus benefits seems to be more then a fair wage. I guess I must ask what do you believe a teacher should earn? This includes wages and benefits?
In the REAL world most underachievers as well as most overachievers work 49 weeks a year.
Educators 37 weeks?
8:03 Corporations and Unions can't vote? So when either than throws money at a political party or candidate I consider it a bribe.
Now they don't even try to hide there desire to re-elect Paul Hach. Channel 12 is advertising his community campaign picnic on channel 12 which also happenins to be the same day as the city picnic?
Why do they advertising for Paul and no one else? After the riff raf leave they will have a bonfire on his piece of the moon. That's where the money transfer will happen. What a sham!
Well they will tell us it has nothing to do with Paul getting re-elected just a picnic like the one they advertised for Andy Flock. That being said I guess we won't see any re-elect Paul Hach yard signs or banners? Right? If we do see a campaign being conducted the city will be on notice of what this function really is. Andy and Hal have never made their meeting's of a political nature. I hope Paul follows suit.
As far as the bonfire the last time my daughter had one the police said there was a complaint and told her to put it out. I assume the same thing will happen with Paul?
Met Katie Jenkins at Taste of Painesville read her web site. She's not one you speak of ready to not renew the city managers contract. Well written but has she looked around? This city is failing in a multitude of ways. I guess it someone else trying to be a someboby?
Why won't anyone take a stand?
No Katie wasn't one of the three. If thats the way she want's to address this issue fine. I am sure she has spent time evaluating Hal's job on council, you then assume she has evaluated the city manager also? Katie should ask council members how long they wait for a response from the city manager? One waited three weeks just for a city organizational chart? Wonder if this 80 million dollar business had one? She must remember this is the same lady that will drop a packet off at her door Friday night and expect a vote Monday evening. Yes Katie everything is an emergency in Painesville. It's that way for a reason.
In the end I believe Katies a smart girl and knows who really runs Painesville.
Now what do you do if Hal comes out against re-newing the city managers contract?
Term - if he comes out against rita I think it should send up a red flag. He already ran once on that platform. Did anyone see any attempts to defy or get rid of Rita? You can't run after 4 years on the same thing when you did nothing about it in your first 4 years.
That would just show me that he does have his own agenda and he's just saying things to get elected. I already believe he's all hot air anyway
Bribe, maybe. Still they don't vote. Wall Street donates to candidates, yes. Unions donate to candidates, yes. Both those could be bribes. Now, union members are told who to vote for and members are sometimes checked to see if they did vote. So, in my opinion, that is borderline voter intimidation. Yes, I know that they can't tell who you voted for but can find out if you did vote or not. I doubt Wall Street goes that far.
I only seem to recall union members in Wisconsin and Ohio protesting. I do seem to have seen a lot of teachers there too. Wisconsin teachers even left class to protest.
Do I think teachers, for one, are over paid. Some maybe. I also don't think they are underpaid either. I also believe we need to get everyone's benefit costs under control. One way is to be able to shop for hospitalization from others rather than be tied to the teachers union's own insurance program.
If you expect results from the school administration, then why not teachers too. Most are good but tenure must be addressed to make sure the bad teachers can be let go. Same thing needs to happen in all areas of employment. No one should be immune from losing their job. Just showing up and doing nothing doesn't give you the right to a paycheck forever. How much dead weight can an employer, school system, company or even the taxpayer be expected to keep paying for?
I still say, it is either, what's in it for me or how much is it going to cost me. I don't expect anything for free but I also expect something in return for my money. I also don't see the teachers union or public workers unions fighting for my benefits or my wages. Are public workers buying only cars made by American union members? Do unions invest your retirement funds in Wall Street? Do union officials draw big paychecks like Wall Street?
Republican or Democrats, they are both to blame. Big business and the unions are both to blame, too. Let's see what they do or if they can work together to bring about more jobs.
TERM 7:27 >> said..."I must ask what do you believe a teacher should earn? This includes wages and benefits?"*
...
I'd say ' AGAIN': More then the underachievers make! And, more then people who never studied in school, never went to college and never learned a trade. As for, how much should they get paid, I'd say whatever the powers in charge agree to. I just don't believe the Policeman, firefighters and teachers that mucked the country up, with their greedy pensions and salaries. It was the greedy politicians and the bankers, that did it!
To 12:22...fool me once...shame on you....fool me twice...shame on me. Hal tried that already....I don't think it would be a good idea for him to get on that particular soapbox again because his credibility in that area is nil.
If Hal makes a promise to vote to not extend the city manager contract he's got my vote. If he lies we will recall him. People have had their fill of McMahon & Co.
We don't have time for Katie to figure it out.
Beware of city union endorsements. It will cost you money in the future. It's just called payback. I rub your palm you rub mine. Government workers at all levels are overpayed Support SB 5.
To: 1:39 PM, "I also don't see the teachers union or public workers unions fighting for my benefits or my wages."*
...
Why don't you fight for your own benefits or your wages? Most people sit back and let others do the fighting and sacrificing!
2:08 I believe you make alot more then your "underachievers". AGAIN.. Please give me a dollar amount. Can't do it can you? I just never understood why your wages went hand and hand with longevity?
Are the best teachers the ones that have been there the longest? If that true no parent should subject their child to a new teacher. Truth be told some of the best teachers are the youngest ones who you believe should make less?
Look at the Sheriff Department young deputy's face layoff so the retired "double dippers" keep their jobs? I have always heard of the Brotherhood that exists between firefighters,I believe most would approve of a layoff rather than take a pay cut to keep a brother or sister working. Am I to buy all this?
All government worker should have collective bargining at the same time since they are in pretty much a monopoly job they should not be be allowed to strike. Their jobs should be able to be outsources, [parks and recreation, bus drivers,] and EVERY underachiever and overachiever should be given a voucher to send his child to where he wants and not be held hostage to a public education. You 2:08 should have to compete for your wage. Pretty much like most of us Americans. Not liking this idea?
To: TERM ... 8:12 AM , Well, nothing was stopping you or anyone else from becoming a policeman, firefighter or a teacher! All, it takes is guts and a willingness to better oneself. Those jobs require courage and skill.
You said. "Their jobs should be able to be outsourced, [parks and recreation, bus drivers,]." Ha! The only jobs that are being outsourced is your job (If you have one) and almost EVERY other underachiever jobs!
What you underachievers are doing is killing the middle class, with your jealousy and you want everyone brought down to your level!
....
Oh, BTW, I am not a public worker!
7:06 Still can't answer the questions? Throwing insults at me won't change what's happening in the economics of this country will it?
I want ALL government to be held responsible.
BTW, tell us what you do?
Please answer the question I asked you.
To: TERM ...7:22 AM:
The better question is" (What do you do?) Do you even have a job? You seem to have a lot of time on your hands. Attending all the meetings in Town, talking to residents and taking pictures of garbage bins, (that has resulted in the resident of Painesville getting another garbage can and an increase in our rates.) Now, you want the City Manager fired. Isn't that the purview of the Council members. If you aren't happy with the present Council members and the City Manager, why not run for Council?
...
As for what's happening in the economics of this country? The answer is: How about raising taxes to Reagan levels, wage war on companies that use Cayman Island mail drops, cut defense spending in half, make for-profit health insurance companies illegal and spend at least $2 trillion in infrastructure.
Term, No firefighter brotherhood in PV city.They have in the past thrown others under the bus to save their paycheck including overtime. They are not the stereotypical firefighters you hear and read about. Consider volunteering? Planning, lend an hour helping within the community? NO and only if it was to benefit them. This is why I think you should live in the communtiy you work in.
9:49 I have a full-time job with a company in the city of Painesville. I run their shipping and receiving it's a 40+ plus hour a week job. I feel I work for great peopleand have a great boss.
The picture time and meeting time isn't that much if your someone in their 60's. Your rate was going to increase and we did get rid of that eye-sore on Latimore St.
I believe the city manager has nothing left to enhance the city of Painesville. Driven businesses from town and squandered precious funds. Sorry.
I don't believe I would be an effective councilman. Although watching some of what goes on I may be wrong.
If I voted for something that wasted city residents money I would probably resign. Not think well we have a slush fund to cover crap like this. Now some people on council don't even feel losing 2 million dollars is a mistake and ask to be re-elected? I couldn't do it. I guess if it's not your money, what's the big deal.
Still no dollar answer? I am looking for a number.
Just so you know his "underachiever" agree's 100% with your economic solutions. Plus let's get ALL of our troops out of Iraq and Afganistan. Funny we never had to find cuts to offset the money spent there. We eliminated Bin Laden let's pick-up our chips and go home.
If theres another attack lets just go Nuklar on em.
Paul Hach just wants to burn rocks 300 miles away for the next 50 years? What could make anyone believe in a 50 year energy contract? Mr.2 MILLION DOLLAR MAN will pay on election day. We could elect a rock to get votes like this.
Why did you print Community Pride do you know if this statement is true? Are you a fireman?
Let's just say I have heard rumblings. Sometimes city employees will make statements in front of me without realizing who I am? Maybe I will be asked to post a picture to stop this practice. Once I overheard a city fireman tell a township fireman "yeah we got to take care of this area now to. More crap we can't take care of." He didn't say crap.
We have a good fire department but as most things it ain't perfect.
Post a Comment
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
<< Home