"COUNCIL MEETING 12/21/09"
December 21st Winter Begins.
Council meeting tonight
7:30pm City Hall
Presentation of Christmas Decorations around Painesville.
Main topic the 2010 budget.
Moving money around.
Donation of land to the city.
Tonight will be Arlenes and Abbeys last night come in to wish them well in the future.
*************************************************************************************
What a finish! The budget passed 5-2 Andy Flock resolution didn't.Lets say a prayer for those people at Cobblestone.
The city pays over 3 million dollars in healthcare a year?
City Manager has not heard of owing AMP-OHIO 3 million dollars, first she's heard of it? I would advise her to find out. I did. 3 mill and not even a double AA battery to show for it.
Abbey and Arlene said their farewells Abbey ended her term with a resolution to limit council people to 3 minute closing remarks? Thanks Abbey council is running a city with a 72 million dollar budget and 18,000 people. What you might need more than 3 minutes? Hal Werner voted "YES" for the resolution, after the meeting he stated he didn't hear the question? Hal that explains a lot about how you vote. You just can't make this stuff up. Pass all the resolutions you want but whats in the charter about this subject?
Law Director Gurley stated that hes sat next to Abbey for most of her time on council and off the record, and not heard over her mike she has made some running statements. Sorry Joe everyone in the first three rows have heard her banter, and for the most part it was unneeded and even uncalled for.
posted by terminator1 @ 11:29 AM
44 Comments
44 Comments:
Should the people of Painesville listen to what the fire chiefs says is correct for the city of Painesville... does he know what is best for the city? or does Andy Flock know more then him? hmmmm ?
hmmmmm? Please pay attention the fire chief said response times are not up to him to decide. That its councils place to decide.
$80,000 plus a year and he doesn't want to be the expert to decide? To be fair his own quote "We do a fair job" Chief your department does an excellent job in spite of you.
So Abbey went out with a bang, huh? That's too bad.
Good luck to Abby and Arlene in whatever they end up doing. I'll miss watching Abby roll her eyes and make fun of people :-)
Thank god Arlen just went out.....
Lets limit free speech to three minutes for council people? Where did that come from?
Maybe Mr. Flock has the bigger picture in view...as he should. The fire chief is supposed to be primarily concerned with only his sphere of the city, but it would be extremely helpful if he would make some noise on the subject. If my own assessment of my job was only 'fair' I think I would be hollering long and loud for the tools necessary to improve. Hey, city limit dwellers, when you are left waiting during a medical emergency because Painesville EMS is wending its way to Cobblestone or on another call, then you (or your loved one) will think $100,000is cheap and wonder why anyone is balking at spending it.
I believe what the Fire Chief means is to increase response time will cost money, and it is up to council to decide whether to spend the money or not.
Isn't he the expert? Should he have explained things better three years ago? I quoted him just as he said it. Also last night he thought using the Grand River station wasn't a good solution. Gee Chief, where were those thoughts over three years ago when the city manager decided to use them? Without realizing it you just threw your Boss under the Bus. This is what I mean by a bunch of hipocrites. Abbey only thinks lives were important if Joe told her they were. Now I can roll my eyes.
Will someone explain to me why the city manager blames the Township for these problems when she annexed the land from them. Why would the council president Mr. Hada think its the townships responsibility since they are in the Riverside School district? What we are watching is a case of pass the buck.
So Hal votes yes because he didn't hear the question? What is he nuts?
Wouldn't you ask to repeat the question.
I forgot this is a typical Painesville councilman, Joe Hada thinks the township should provide EMS service because the children go to there schools? We don't know if we owe 3 million dollars or not?
Plus now Abby passes a resolution that the two new councilmen don't even get to vote on?
Well we now know where the pain in Painesville comes from.
I feel the same way about Abbey leaving. Thank goodness. Just sitting there filling a seat and going along with Hada, Gurley ad McMahon. Sorry to hear her bad character played a part right up to the very end. I was hoping she would just leave quietly. Had to go out with a "na-na-na-na-na" that will now hurt council proceedings. That's just what we need -- everyone shut up except Hada.
Glad to see Arlene Becks go, too. Another worthless seat occupant.
I hope the two new people have good character and good brains that they intend to use and are not just more "yes" people.
You people just don't get it do you? How does this Cobblestone mess become a fire department issue? The city annexed the land and built it up but where the heck is the road that is supposed to go through there? If the road was in place, response times wouldn't be such a problem. Let me remind you COUNCIL allowed this to happen and COUNCIL will not put a fire levy on the ballot. They made this mess yet are they in the hot seat? NO, the fire chief is and this problem is beyond his control. Either finish the road or allow a levy for more funds. Why is Cobblestone such a big deal to Flock anyway? It isn't his ward and the only one complaining is him not the residents of Cobblestone. I think he has some other hidden motive no one can be that nuts.
People, take a look at the South end of Painesville where we have been waiting 30+ years for a fire station-Cobblestone is nothing compared to this area.
Hey Term your parents live on Cedarbrook and are quite elderly. Aren't you concerned about the lack of response to this area? Especially now that TriPoint takes the fire department a lot longer to respond? What do you mean by the comment the department does a good job in spite of the Chief?
What is/was your occupation? I'd bet you were Never in management. Have you heard the saying about walking a mile in someone elses shoes cuz if you did maybe you wouldn't be so hard on everyone who doesn't think like you.
So Hal Werner voted to shut himself up. Funny. Scary -- very scary, but funny.
Yes my parents live on Cedarbrook. My concern is while the EMS unit is out on a trek to Cobblestone someone on Cedarbrook or Elm or Bank Sts. might need their help. If we could let Grand River take a part in Cobblestone and even parts of the North End, It may solve some problems. More manpower at the station won't speed times to Cobblestone or other parts of Painesville.
The Chief is responsible for taking an active roll in the safety of the ALL citizens of Painesville. When he start doing that great. All he seems to understand is to be a puppet to the City Manager. Walk in his shoes no way, but I atleast get invited to all retirement parties?
I apoligise to the Chief and others that I have attacked, but I had to sit through so much B.S. at the council meeting last night.I fear the only way things will ever change is that some poor unknowing soul has to suffer or even die before the hypocrites around here get it.
To 2:00pm thats not how To spell my name. No I have never been arrested on porn charges with minors in a laundromat my whole life in the 70,80,90, to this day?
Term, don't feel bad about hurting that goofs feelings. I remember watching a council meeting afew years back, when you explained why it wasn't a good idea to build houses close to the railroad tracks. He laughed and said we have a bigger problem worrying about cars hitting houses than trains hitting them. Well within a year we had the big derailment in Painesville. If that would have happened two hundred feet west he would have been fighting house fires. To this day he has never recanted his remarks that maybe its not a good idea.
The last chief left because he couldn't deal with Rita's meddling.
Mary Poppins
Quotes from Term "Walk in his shoes no way, but I atleast get invited to all retirement parties"
"I apoligise to the Chief... " Apologize? What good is an apology when you turn around and take another cheap shot at him about retirement parties? You are not a nice man.
The Pope and Mother Teresa(if she were still alive) could run the fire station but most of the firefighters wouldn't/couldn't get along with anyone in authority. Much like you and your ugly comments all the time.
There isn't anything I mention on this blog. that I woul;dn't say to there faces. City Manager, Fire Chief Council person. I don't think after watching the presentation that councilman Flock has made in the last few weeks and have some change the story around. You don't think we need help 19 minutes to respond to a call on Chestnut St. 13 minutes to Elm St. I expect a chief to get the council and city manager to do something not loyalty but results.
I get it they don't like me, and I don't care. This isn't about personalities its about the workings of Painesville.
I will be civil as long as they are I don't expect fake smiles, and/or concerns.
Complain to the chief hes running the show isn't he?
Yahoo to all of you who are finally seeing the forest through the trees regarding the bent policies of the City of Paine!
Lake East has now moved and they are called Tri-Point; and now we have such a problem with response times all over our city. Where in the Heck were all of you when you knew 5 to 6 years ago about the move? Great and Queen CM, who thinks she knows how to run the F.D. and P.D. - Does your wonderful, but never produced resume, include common sense on how to produce/accomplish a factually current/long term study, in order for your F.D. to get there butts there in a more timely fashion? No, your plans do not address these issues at all. Why, because you are not capable of any intelligent planning issue.
Your Fire Chief slapped you in the face on 12/21 when he stated that Grand River was not the place: but, you went with them for F.D./EMS because it was the easiest way to go for you because you did not do what you stated you would do in regards to your annexed Cobblestone Dev. If you really knew how to be a Manager you would realize that $100,000.00 is not a sanctified figure to put one of this cities employees at Grand river. By rotating the part-timers you would only have to expend 60 or 65 thousand dollars.
Your management of this city is disgusting. Approve a vast development as Cobblestone and Heisley - no direct Road for Services - and now state you do not know where the money (funds) will come from to finish the project. Any Service Road is the First Item in a Planning Process, not the last with no Funds.
You are up in age CM, and how would you feel if you lived in Cobblestone and learned that a CM stated that it was "Fiscally Irresponsible" to budget city monies (that they pay to the coffers) to improve "Health-Care" services (EMT/FD) to the area that you live. How would you feel, as you always take care of your MOM, if this happened in her neighborhood??? Knowing you, you would be the first to speak out and "Knife the Negativity".
Rita Mc, your last statement at the 12/21 Council Meeting just shows that you do not know what you are doing - as always.
"When in true doubt, always blame others". Never have you or your sewed-up council folks admitted that they made a mistake or were wrong. Hey Rita, have you ever had a personal assessment that you might be a "Verbal Abuser"? Many City employees know that you are guilty of this.
Blame Painesville Township - because you KNOW you failed this entire City. Make this Public statement against Painesville Township, (as always) to try and cover-up your failed Leadership.
You blamed Mentor, Grand River, Fairport, and now Painesville Twp. You are running-out of entities to blame so you can look great. You Rita do not have a favorable rating - not in the Cities of this County nor a favorable rating with the Lake County Commissioners.
We,the many people of Painesville, do not wish to bow down to your self-centered policies. We, the many people of Painesville, wish you well as we Hope you will leave this City again and go as far west as you did before (remember?).
When you were the Planner here before, and your one way street urban development came-about; it was a total failure!! Remember??
Now, here we go again with the same strategy - it failed before and it will fail again because it is not and never will be the Savior of Painesville. Why have you not learned from your Previous mistakes?? An attitude of way too Much Self Pride and very Little in the Education Arena.
Your New to Painesville is chock-full of great problems: Your ignorance/neglect of all of the areas of Painesville, that has made Painesville Great (Long Before You) are and have-been neglected for way too long. We are and have always been the Cinder Block Base of Painesville of which you have now decided to wash away.
You will not wash us away, as we will make sure that you take the trip out West and never return.
Hey Term,
Thanks for worrying about response times for all of us, and specifically, at the moment, Chestnut Street and Elm Street. I had no idea we had 19 and 13 minute response times. That is a sad, scary scenario.
I just watched the council meeting on television. Abbey's vote to limit the remarks of council members to three minutes was shameful. Really, shame on her and shame on them. It was obviously immaturely plotted and planned out. I don't understand why the people of Painesville keep voting these people in. They must not be paying close enough attention. Shame on Abbey and the rest of them. Really.
Elm St. don't thank me. Councilman Flock was the person who brought this to the public, thank him.
First he was upset that the administration didn't let council know that Grand River was no longer assisting Painesville at Cobblestone. Why wasn't council informed?
As the chief has explain the 19 and or 13 minute times are not normal but did occur when city fireman were out of position.
We have a problem now that the hospital has moved. We make the city larger, collect more taxes but give less services.
This did not happen overnight we should have planned for this years ago.
Grand River Fires Station could be used as a real asset for the city, the township,and Grand River.
It just means the CM would loss alittle control.
Grand River was a perfect solution until they wanted manpower, or compensation. These leaders we have I don't understand.
Do you have any idea how many fire stations are within a 5 mile circle of where you live? Cound a joint fire station be advantages to Concord and Painesville built say near the old Dinnerbell?
No one seems to want to think out of the box.Why?
Explain this math to me. This is the 2nd time I've seen this in the News-Herald. It says that the $100,000 amendment would account for 7% of the general fund budget of $13,610,385.
$100,000 is only 10% of $1,000,000, and it is only 0.7% of the actual budget. This is the 2nd time it's been incorrect. Did Rita fill out a questionnaire for the News-Herald with this misinformation, or is the News-Herald covering for the City?
I have never heard anyone in the city administration use these figures including the City Manager.
Your math is right, but according to the powers that $100,000 would have to come out of our rainy day fund for no better chose of words. Which we like to keep at 20% of the general fund budget? I'm not sure of these figures because I don't believe its ever been explained. 20% of the general budget would be aroun 2.5 million dollars. The city manager stated this would lower that savings to alittle over 19%. The numbers get thrown around at the meeting and I sometimes wonder if anyone knows what they mean. $100,000 out of the general fund doing my math would be less than 1% please anyone out there feel free to correct this figure. $130,000 dollars is 1% of 13,000,000 dollars right? So we would be looking at less than that.
Look if it wasn't Joe Hada's or Rita McMahons idea, it just won't pass. Next time let them think it their idea.
You have to wonder if the two new council members will think for themselves or just take directions.
December 23, 2009 4:42 AM
Elm St. don't thank me. Councilman Flock was the person who brought this to the public, thank him. No, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Don't thank Flock,thank the fire chief, who put all the numbers together to show Flock that Cobblestone is not the only place with long run times. The BIG DIFFERENCE is the number of runs to Cobblestone vs the other areas of the city. Yes run times are long in some areas but Cobblestone is a very small percentage. I have a co-worker who lives in Cobblestone and she has said numerous times there is not as big of a concern with the residents and most of the residents knew what they were getting into when they moved there. How many residents have been to council to address this situation? None. Look at the people that came from Heisley Park to speak out about the sump/water problem. Mr. Flock is stirring the pot for his personal reasons.
Flock is trying to get funding for the Grand River/Township station to help out his friend in Cobblestone, a township trustee, that's the only reason.
Why else is he making such a big todo when the residents are not concerned?
I've seen those numbers twice in News-Herald articles.
To December 24, 2009 6:10 AM.
Which numbers were they? And were they correct? The Newsless Herald does have a habit of making mistakes. One time we witnessed a 1car accident and the NH showed up. The car involved was red ane when the story ran they reported it as blue...how far off can they be?
So you can't always believe everything you read and if you want the true facts pick up the phone or pay a visit to the ones in charge. They will tell you the facts!
One of my biggest problems with Flock all these years is that he has never done his job. He has spent all these years pretending to do it, but has never done it. Until now.
I want to thank Term, Flock and the few others for forcing the best conversation about response times in this city that I have ever heard at the last council meeting.
Unfortunately Hada, Hach and Abby directed it to exactly the conclusion they wanted, but hopefully we can get past them and have another good conversation.
It does seem that with Lake East leaving the area we do need a broader discussion now. But certainly doing nothing is not the answer.
I was left a little confused on quite a few issues, and I will have to go back to watch the meeting again, but first there was an old proposal where we join in with several areas. That apparantly would only cost Painesville a few thousand dollars. That was apparantly nixed because of lack of cooperation with the Township.
Then we jump to Painesville having to come up with $100,000 for a sub station in Grand River. What?
The chief says we need more people to man the Painesville station first.
Flock has offered to reopen talks with the neighboring cities. McMahon says these talks are ongoing. Our city does not have the best reputation for working well with others. Maybe the problem with the Township was not all the Township's fault.
I'm with Flock on this one. Can we also set up a city, or even multi-city gathering to discuss all these issues with the residents. Seems like with Lake East leaving that it is time for a whole new round of opening discussions.
Also, the chief said that a substation in Grand River is not the answer. Has he ever said what he thinks the answer is?
Might we not be able to figure out how to have the extra person he wants here AND try to resolve the response time problem with the 100,000, or even perhaps for a lot less that the 100,000?
This is not the time to just say "no." This issue really IS too important to let it drop -- even for a second. We need to start right now to figure this out.
Let's start those meetings Andy. Let's start from the very beginning and see what we can work out.
Why does the council meeting end before Abbey goes into her spiel? Maybe that don't want people to see the setup?
To Mr. Flock's critics...even if it is true that Cobblestone residents show little/no concern for EMS response times right now...it is not outside the realm of possibility that when someone dies as a result of this poor planning, they will sue the city. And what about future residents of that area, they deserve for this issue to be properly settled as soon as possible. And if Flock found out about the situation because a friend lives there....so what. How do you think Term finds out about so much besides attending council meetings regularly? He listens to people, some of whom are friends and others become friends. Floc is trying to do the ethical thing once it was brought to his attention...no matter how he found out. And not only has Mr Flock identified a problem, he came to the table with several suggestions on how to deal with it. He's not just whining about it but actually trying to fix it. How refreshing. I wholeheartedly agree with many of the above posters in hoping that the new members of council are their own people and decide things on their own merits rather than doing what the City Manager and Council President think things should be.
To add to 7:51. (Hope 7:51 doesn't mind):
And it's not just Cobblestone anymore. The hospital moved, so it's a whole new ball game. Everything needs to be thought over from scratch. The sooner this process starts, the better.
It can only be a good thing that Flock is offering to get involved in the talks with the other communities, since I hear McMahon doesn't play nice with the others on the playground. We need to start from the beginning with these talks and see what can be done now.
After hearing response times of over 9 minutes the city somehow cut a minute off the times? Were they slow or lazy before or are they now breaking laws?
How could anyone move into those apartments now and feel comfortable. We should offer to let a councilman Fountain the head of the safety committee live there and see how he likes the response times?
Someone should ask why some city employees are asked to keep an eye on other department heads personal lives?
After watching the council meeting how can any city resident feel comfortable about response times.
The fire chief seems to not have a clue remember hes the expert.As well as most of council. If Grand River could also be used to cover the northend of Painesville in an emergency its seems to be a wise investment.
Thank-you Mr. Hada to making me aware of long response times around the city, Whats the answer Joe?
For 6:55:
You are right! The tape of the council meeting does end now before Abby pulls her immature and destructive vote to limit council persons comments to 3 minutes!
They obviously read this blog and have now altered the airing of the tape.
I have long suspected that they manipulate the tapes to their own satisfaction, and here is living proof.
In my opinion, these people (Hada, Hach, Abby, Fountain and McMahon) are so untrustworthy, that it is frightening.
Come Monday morning (tomorrow), people need to start calling city hall and getting that tape aired in its entirety. Also, the 4:00 a.m. viewing is not working at all.
It's high time these people are exposed for who they really are.
This is 2:11 again. I'm just now realizing what must have actually happened with the tape of the council meeting.
The first time I tried to watch it was sometime during the past week at 4:00 a.m. It was probably Tuesday (actually Wed. a.m.). The only thing that played was the last few minutes when Abby pulled her trick. Apparantly, that part of the tape had been taken out, but instead of playing everything BUT that, that was the only thing that played! Now nothing plays at 4:00 a.m., and Abby's grand finale is continuing to be cut off the end of the 7:30 p.m. showings.
Unbelievable.
To be fair --
After I watched the tape of the council meeting again, it WAS Hada, etc. that was talking about the WHOLE response time issue, while Flock was still hung up on the one area of Cobblestone.
Still, they (Hada, etc.), the chief, and McMahon have done nothing -- for how many years?
So lets make sure that Flock and the two new council members are involved in these talks, too. We need to make sure a new, thorough investigation is conducted into the best thing to do for us and for all the surrounding communities involved, now that Lake East has moved.
Let's hope all the communities will come to the table with all of THEIR people, too, so we can get started ASAP with these talks.
Flock was hung up on Cobblestone? Painesville has a unit at Tri-Point a call comes in from Cobblestone, minutes later one from Bank St. who will take care of that call? We have an opportunity to relieve Painesville of Cobblestone and also get help to the northend for I have hearing for less then $100,000 someone should check on this figure.
At the council meeting 12/21 the fire chief said he had an agreement worked out with Mentor, could we please see the paperwork?
A lot of you are just now realizing what the Hospital moving means. Some of us started warning other communities during the planning stages that they should also be involved and concerned, not just Painesville.
Just about every community in eastern Lake County is facing the same "time" issues. If the finger pointing has to happen it should be pointed at our County Commissioners. They approved, helped, and pushed the Hospital move and yet never once lifted a finger to help the communities within the county plan for increased costs due to the hospital move.
You wonder why Grand River, Fairport, Pville Twp., etc. are balking at helping Painesville?, they are facing the same or worse predicaments with emergency run times.
A lot of posters here mean well but you need to get over your hate of the current city leaders and realize sometimes it isn't just a local issue causing problems, it affects the whole area.
For 5:17:
I thought that's what we have been talking about -- the whole area.
We've been SAYING that Painesville, along with all the surrounding areas, need to come together to work out a comprehensive solution for all of us. Most definitely we are ALL in a bad situation.
I agree with you that the Commissioners and everyone involved dropped the ball. Everyone knew that this hospital move was coming and yet STILL nothing has been done. That's why people on this blog are trying to unite and do something about it. You can see what Painesville 's leaders have done about this -- nothing. Apparantly the other city leaders haven't done anything either.
Time to organize those meetings between Painesville and all the surrounding communities.
About the airing of the tape of the meeting:
I tuned in again at 4:00 a.m. this morning and guess what? The last two minutes of the meeting aired again -- and that's it. Nothing else. So again, the last two minutes that they cut off aired, and the rest of the meeting did not. So I got to see Abby's grand finale again.
It must be a huge mistake. They must have meant to play the whole tape EXCEPT for that part, but instead played only the part they cut out.
Post a Comment
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
<< Home