"DESPERADO" eagles
Busy Monday council meeting .First reading for both levies were left on first reading.
Some facts about this meeting if you own a $100,000 home you presently pay $2,212.74 in property taxes presently. with close to $1,500.00 going to schools. The 2.74 Mill Safety levy will add $83.91 to your property tax and the 3 mill Road Levy will add $91.88 to your yearly property tax.
This combined will add $175.79 to the $2,212.74 for a grand total of $2,388.53. In the case of a $75,000 home you presently pay $1659.56 with alittle over $1,100.00 going to schools. and the safety levy adds $62.93 and the Road Levy will add $68.91 this combined will add $131.84 for a total of $1,791.40.
As you view these increases remember the $96.00 a year in "taxes" to assure you of improved waterlines? If that isn't a tax what is it?
Now next Monday a 7:00 PM there will be the second reading of these levies that way they will be voted on in the third Monday in June. This Road levy was left up to the people last November. It was voted down. So if anyone on council votes to put it on the ballot in November I must assume they support both levies and will stand to want to raise your taxes. No more let the people decide. We did that last November and it FAILED. and for you to bring it to us again I believe you must stand 100% behind both levies. You must actively promote raising people's taxes the amounts stated above and even more in places like Heisley Park and Liberty Greens.
Council will be looking in the community for people to be on these levy committee's in support of there passage.
If you believe this will solve the street problems in Painesville my question is how many years will we need this levy. One member of the public mention shared sacrifice who pays besides property or home owners?
I was told the city is run by experts and then my question is why does it appear for over twenty years Painesville operates from 'Paycheck to Paycheck' where was the funds for replacement. where was the 'rainy day fund' why no reserve funds? Maybe it's easier to spend everything for the past couple of decades and just squeeze you wallet or purse a little more now?
Again the city is desperate for funds and all I see is us just treading water.
Would you join a committee to support either of these two levies? Would you join a committee to defeat either of these levies?
In other news council voted to pay the assistant city manager wages equal to city manager pay for the first six months of 2013. Council person DiNallo stated an amount of less than $6,000? Am I to believe the assistant city manager makes only $12,000 less a year than the city manager?
Can anyone explain why having 26 million dollars in the bank that can't be used to repair streets is illegal by state law, yet you can dip into that amount and pay AMP-OHIO 2.1 million dollars for YOUR mistake?
posted by terminator1 @ 6:58 AM
57 Comments
57 Comments:
I'm confused who's $26 million is it? council's the administration, or the taxpayers of Painesville. Your right I'm not giving them another dime. It's time for your NO$ signs!
Anyone give any thought what these taxes added to the ones we already have will do to commercial development in town? There isn't enough paint to whitewash this one.
I'm voting no for my sanity.
Soon McMahon, Hada and Gurley will be nothing but bad memories.
Only hope the replacements care more about Painesville than themselves.
You know, for a LONG time I thought the property taxes in Painesville were kind of artificially low. However, I was young and stupid and just working to make a living so what did I know.
Then about the time we got the new stadium (which I voted for) the taxes started to rise rather quickly. This was helped by school levies for "operating expenses" after the field was built. Why that wasn't done before the stadium always puzzled me but it wasn't.
Then we vote to build new schools. I voted against that but my side lost.
Now we are at a point where I see my property tax bill, compare it to other communities, and ask, what are we getting for this??
It has risen to the point where it went from being low to being VERY high relative to the services provided.
We have terrible streets, an aging water system, a used fire truck, an electric plant that employs people but generates no power. What else?
Term is right, this has been hand to mouth for a very long time. I don't have the answer but I do have a lot of questions.
You might remember that the Medical mart in Cleveland went the same way. The people turned down a property tax increase proposed to build it. Shortly after that the three Commissioners voted 2-1 to leverage a sales a tax increase on the people to pay for something they had just turned down. BTW, the dissenting vote was the only Commissioner up for election that year. Magic?? Remember that in November.
I have to wonder what the safety levy will involve? After all, the fire department always uses mutual aid (a GOOD thing) so it shouldn't be a needed for them. The police don't seem to have any problems that the Chief has complained about. What will the money be used for?? BTW, look behind City Hall and count the number of police cars back there. It staggers me when I see them.
The roads are pretty obvious, the need help in a big way. I look at very small townships and they have much better roads that we do. How is this possible when they have a much smaller tax base? Oh wait, they aren't forced to pay for power they will never get.
Term makes reference to the $96 per year that has been added to our water bills and refers to it as a tax. Folks, anytime a governmental body gets money from you, it IS a tax. What they call it doesn't matter, it is a tax.
832. Ian a little confused,what stadium did you vote for. The only Oneida know about is in Eastlake which has no effect on Painesville. The building of the schools only cost the school board 25% of the total cost,. We went from 5 elementary school to only 3. That is a money saver, we went from a very old and falling apart high school, to a newer modern building. All this for any 25 %. Of tHe total cost. I just don't understand that part.
Term. Under state law the money earned Bly utility company must stay in that fund and can only be used under certain condition. Like paying a percentage of wages for some employees at city hall. The contract with amp is for the electric dept and therefore that monies can be used to pay that bill.also the vehicles driven by meter readers and the lineman are out of the utilities dept. they work for the water and electric depts. Tahe city even has to pay water bills and electric bills to enclued the street lights and traffick singles. This is by law also. So the city can not use these monies for street repair .
10:15 Short memory? Remember when we moved and rebuilt Jack Britt Stadium?
New schools? Yes we replaced 5 elementary schools with three. Now look at location's of them. Elm is on the eastern border of the system and Chestnut was actually built on Concord Twp. property at the southern border of the system.
In the 50's we had four elementary schools central to the neighborhoods.
Now 'old school' here when I attended Huntington in the middle to late 50's Painesville City Schools had one bus. "ONE" for the whole system how many do we now have? The buses and drivers aren't free.
Glad I won't be here in another 50 years when all five schools will all have to be replaced in the same time frame. Maybe education will be different by then?
Under STATE law? Look if I'm a shareholder in First Energy and I get my dividend check from profits
I can buy a Dairy Queen in Alaska or a McDonalds in India. Yet Painesville's profits can't be used by it's shareholders to repair bad roads? Doesn't make much sense does it?
Wonder how you would feel if you had failing health and no health insurance and you had millions in the bank but you could only use it for home repair or a new home?
8:32 I jumped in because I feel I know where this one came from.
Term, this is 8:23 and you did very well. BTW, your statement about one bus (and it was used for field trips) is 100% accurate. People newer to Painesville, than we are, would never imagine that NO one rode a bus to school anywhere in the City.
Now to address one more thing to 10:15, you say "The building of the schools only cost the school board 25% of the total cost".
Are you really that daft? 25% of the total cost is the bill of goods they sell you to get your vote.
What you don't seem to understand is that (with nothing being free) the other 75% has to come from somewhere. Where would that be, you ask? Well, tax payers throughout the state all get to make up that 75%. Still seems like a good deal to you, doesn't it?
Now what happens when ALL the schools get replaced throughout the state? Suddenly you are paying the local 25% and the state 75% and EVERYONE has a new school.
Think this couldn't happen? You only have to look at Ashtabula County where all the schools are new and/or rebuilt with the exception of Edgewood. Where is your 25% now?
You have to remember that, as a tax payer, everyone is going to pay for everything government does. In the end, it will add up to 100% no matter how they sugar coat it.
Some kids did get a bus ride to school. Say you lived on Button Ave. you got a bus to Huntington.
That one bus took care of the transportation for four schools.
I remember the bus driver name was (Mr.) Russ.
Nice, Now Lori Dinallo throws the schools under the bus!
What's illegal Lori is the way you guys manage the city.
Term you left out the citys share of the property tax $109.00 for a $100,000 home. You really have this problem telling only half the story, you should be a politition.
3:45 Sorry, Yes I did . Here is the breakdown.
Schools 67.05% $1,483.64
County 20.25% 448.08
Financing District 3.42% $103.56
Library 2.52% $55.76
Auburn 2.08% $34.52
Painesville City 4.68% $103.56
So presently the percentage of your property tax coming into the city is 4.68%.
combine the Road and Safety Levy and the city will receive $279.35.
Presently on a $75,000 home your 4.68% is presently $77.67 with the new taxes added it will be $$209.51.
I politician? That's the worse thing anyone has called me yet.
Ask the administration who and where the newest property owner of a building on the Veterans Square is. How hard is it to contact them?
Well my best guess would be a place with a wall around it that does a lot of business with Wal-Mart.
7:00am. Are u talking about the senior center?
7:00am, I don't get it? What does this mean? Am I missing something? Is this a reference to senior citizens?
anonymous 7:00am, huh?
China?
We grew up in the Cedarbrook area and went to Lathrop. No buses there either. If there were, it was I believe a city bus. We had to pay a small fare to ride, but I don't remember it being there everyday. Many, many times we had to walk and that was considered the longest distance to and from any of the schools back then.
1003 back my spell check change center to citizen. So is it the senior center
Cedarbrook,Lucille yes that's quite a hike did it in the fifth grade.
We traveled in packs.
In the spring and fall bicycles were a savior.
I remember a YMCA youth membership was $15.00 a year!
you guys are talking back when those schools were brand new. Did they even make buses back then oh yes that was when you walked up hill both ways in your bare feet right
No, those schools were hardly new even than.
My father attended Huntington. growing up. No hills but KEDS tennis shoes were 2pair for $5.00.
Anyone remember Red-Ball Jets?
Me I'm happy I grew up then.
Seems way to complicated presently.
ok, 7:00am. I'm not the only one confused. What the heck are you talking about? Walmart? What does that have to do with a building on the square, and if it is the Senior Center what the heck does that have to do with Walmart. Is this a private joke between you and TERM?
East & Miller Ct. too.
The schools were old way back when. Stairs in a school-NOT handicap accessible. I am happy I grew up then and actually I was born to late. I wish I could have been a June Clever type of woman. Working women, working Moms - Womens Lib? What were you thinking?
City Bus, Think back there were very few June Clever's, Donna Reed's ect.
We had no where the number of conveniences that we have in todays world. How many two car families did you know? Ringer washing machines, dryers, permanent press clothes. Being a Mom back then wasn't that glorifying a job.
There were many more Edith Bunkers than June Cleavers.
1:09 a piece of property on the square was purchased by a Chinese holding company.
term thanks for posting what it will cost me if both levies pass.
according to you figures if I have a house valued at $100,000.00 I would pay 76 cents a day, I get police protection with adequate equipment, fire protection with adequate equipment, there would be a viable road resurfacing program, the parks a recreation department would be continued, the roads and side walks would be plowed and I can still afford to by a plot at Riverside Cemetery. I guess since you quoted 75,000.00 that's probably your house and you only have to pay 57 cents a day. Your always making out. I'm happy that you gave me this information - heading out to Perkins to celebrate.
Thanks agian
Thank goodness for the woman's movement! Things were not so great for woman back in the day. My Mom worked in 40's, and until 1955 when she took off 6 years off to have two kids and in 1961 went back to work for the government in downtown Cleveland. She never made a decent wage but had good benefits. She did her share of work in an all male office and made the coffee and made half the salary! She worked so we could pay the bills. She had very few opportunities to move up the ladder so she stayed put. There were no woman's shelters and nobody was talking about rape or incest, we swept it under the apron and kept moving.
I thank my Mom and even my Grandma who stood up and said enough! June Cleaver and Edith Bunker ....... RIP.
2:45 Don't forget all the other property taxes you already pay. I got blasted for not mentioning the $103.00 that your already paying. Using your logic how many years before all the streets get repaved?
Why don't you go to Mondays council meeting Monday night at 7:00pm and bring your figures and maybe tell council you can afford more.
You should attend a council meeting and find out what the funds are used for.
Problem is I have met Painesville homeowners scrapping by on $8,000 or less a year. Plus Why are property owners assessed these levies and if you live in public housing, section 8 they get the same services as you do on your dime.
Presently if you own your home in Painesville it works out not to be to beneficial to you that much.
You know why you won't come to council and ask them for a larger levy. You are probably a city employee living outside the city. I will be waiting to hear from you Monday night.
To you readers I have been told that all council people read the minutes as well as everything in their 'packets' A council person who was absent at the last meeting ask if council corrected a big mistake in the last minutes of the council meeting? I said no one mentioned anything. He than ask me to read the minutes on line at the city site and see if I could find a mistake. Within five minutes I found exactly what he was talking about. Any council person if they took the time to read the minutes would have also found it. I guess we can wait until the next council meeting to correct it.
Then you have to wonder if it was done for a reason?
Your levy dollars at work:
1.Substitute School Administrator JobID: 1492
District: Painesville City Local School District - website
Internal Candidates
2.English Language Learner (ELL) Paraprofessional (2 needed) contingent upon enrollment
English Language Learner (ELL) Paraprofessional (2 needed) contingent upon enrollment
August 5, 2013 – August 16, 2013
8:15am – 11:45am
Must be bilingual
Must be willing to work collaboratively with classroom teachers
Must have kindergarten experience.
I will ask again, why is ELL necessary in hs & ms. These kids should know and speak the language before they can enter school.
This would save taxpayers so much money by eliminating xcess baggage.
term if someone rents and its not "government housing" the property owner pays property taxes and on "income property" is more. Which then is passed on to the renter. as for "section eight" ask your president and those before him who have made this a welfare state. No one should pay for any services - hows that get the road paved any fast if at all.
7:56 Yes and who subsidized the property owner? The government it's a vicious circle. Blame Obama? Ask anyone where eared income credit came from? You will be surprised who they don't think it was.
5:52 I guess because those students just showed up here?
WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE, FOR SOMEONE from our city council, TO PROVE - CLEAR-UP, the reason we cannot use the profit's, from the electric plant for our street's ?EXPLAIN WHY WE CANNOT??? 26 MILLION PROFIT,S is alot of money.
Check the Ohio Revised Code as it is in there you will fing your answer. They can only use funds from that enterprise to buy or pay for things from that utility . A public utility is regulate differently . Than a private one. That is Ohio law and I get the frustration change the law do not be mad at those that follow it.
confused... At the last meeting the finance director claimed that in the last two years the state of Ohio has sent Painesville City $750,000 less than in the two years proceeding that..
Now council instead of going after the state to make up for lost revenues decides it wants YOU and me to contribute the difference and more.
Yes an explanation as to why we can't use some of that money to repair city streets, yet with the stroke of a pen the city can send 2.1 million dollars to AMP-OHIO on that failed plant in Meigs County.
Look I would rather we could use some of that money to fix streets than send that money to AMP.
Something tells me this is something that was slipped into law by someone.
The experts in Painesville can't cry poor mouth sitting on 26 to 32 million dollars. Only a fool would give them more funds.
They have fought to privatize the cemetery maintenance or street repair. Just tax us more is their solution. I'm at the end of what Painesville deserves to get. You can vote anyway you wish but this solution won't work.
Look in the last six months the city has done without an assistant manager how soon could that savings turn in road repair?
12:47 Time to change that law. Why not.
Why hasn't the city or AMP-OHIO or other electric communities even tried?
Someone mentioned Westerville, Ohio has options?
You may be right but it makes no sense for a utility that grosses 25 million to be sitting on 26 million?
@6/32 million and the city gets $200,000 a year in interest. That's not even keeping up with inflation.
552...that ELL job is for elementary and the Adm posting is for summer school. The reason we need ELL is the state counts each child on the proficiency who is enrolled in school. Going to school here is mandatory (it's not in Mexico), and students take the test no matter what their English level....the state says we slide them an English dictionary and that's what they get. How would you do on a Russian test if you arrived the week before the test and your teacher just slipped you a Russian/English dictionary? Probably not too well....
Also, the English speakers aren't exactly tearing up our test either, so don't lay the blame solely at the feat of ELL. There is a pervasive culture of some in this community that it is not cool to do well, or be successful. This student thinking is heartily reinforced by their parents in many cases. Until certain students and parents change their thinking, I feel we are bailing water out of the Titanic.
Most students and parents are great, but this segment makes it hard to you your job....here is another fact that people don't hear, most of the Hispanic parents are some of the most supportive when It comes to their children...most of them are not the illegals you might think that they are...if they are, they should go, but many are doing the jobs that others won't....
TO POST 12:47 This is confused. Could you post the ohio law??
6:52 who says we have to pay for them because they come to our country? Let them assume the cost. They come here, pay the price. simple as that.
4:48 Who says? I believe it was nine people in Washington D.C. that go by the name, SCOTUS.
Supreme Court of the United States.
Here is the link to Ohio Revised Code – Title 7 Municipal Corporations
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/743
Chapter 743 Utilities – Electric, Gas, Water
743.05 Disposition of surplus funds.
After payment of the expenses of conducting and managing the water works, any surplus of a municipal corporation may be applied to the repairs, enlargement, or extension of the works or of the reservoirs, the payment of the interest of any loan made for their construction, or for the creation of a sinking fund for the liquidation of the debt. In those municipal corporations in which water works and sewerage systems are conducted as a single unit, under one operating management, a sum not to exceed ten per cent of the gross revenue of the water works for the preceding year may be taken from any surplus remaining after all of the preceding purposes have been cared for and may be used for the payment of the cost of maintenance, operation, and repair of the sewerage system and sewage pumping, treatment, and disposal works and for the enlargement or replacement thereof. Each year a sum equal to five per cent of the gross revenue of the preceding year shall be first retained from paid surplus as a reserve for waterworks purposes.
The amount authorized to be levied and assessed for waterworks purposes shall be applied by the legislative authority to the creation of the sinking find for payment of any indebtedness incurred for the construction and extension of water works and for no other purposes; provided, where such municipal corporation does not operate or maintain a water works or a sewage pumping, treatment, and disposal works, any or all such surplus may be transferred to the general fund of the municipal corporation in the manner provided for in sections 5705.15 and 5705.16 of the Revised Code.
Effective Date: 03-18-1969
743.27 Free use of municipally owned public utilities.
The legislative authority of any municipal corporation owning and operating municipal water, gas, or electric light plants, may provide by ordinance that the products of such plants, when used for municipal or public purposes, shall be furnished free of charge.
Effective Date: 10-01-1953
_______________________________
The city pays about 10 million a year for utilities. Make them free for the city and the city has more money.
See 2013 Budget Document
http://www.painesville.com/vertical/sites/%7B66FDE066-2B9A-43E2-8DFC-2129003D50A7%7D/uploads/FY_2013_BUDGET_DOCUMENT.pdf
SUMMARY OF REVENUES, EXPENDITURES AND FUND BALANCES – ALL FUNDS COMBINED Page 59
4:48 most of the students are citizens.....we are on our second generation of Hispanics in some cases...this has been going on for more than 10 years.....don't let your stereotypes get in the way of the facts....for better or worse, Painesville isn't the same as it used to be....
I got it!
Relocate the power lines under the street. The $26 mil can be used to rip up the roads, bury the power lines, and rebuild the roads.
to post june 8, 6:52pm you are so wrong I'd like to know the percentage of the ell students that passed the ogt test, my kid a so called english speaker said most of them didn't show up for the test at all,where were their parents? My kid passed all 5 sections on his first try with mostly accelerated scores
6:46 What you say may be true. I guess my question is why second-generation middle or high school students still can't speak English?
Abetter question is where are the parents?
Well, I can tell you that I work on a volunteer basis at a local place of "need".
What never ceases to amaze me are the number of people who bring children with them, to get supplies, during the school day.
My thought is that if they are not in school, they can not possibly be learning. Many (most) times the parent just says that the child didn't want to go to school that day. When did this become an option??
One of the times I mention happened just last week. It was the last day of school and the child simply didn't go. Isn't the school calender +/- 180 days for a reason? Using their logic, it really doesn't matter because you can apparently pick and choose when you want to go to school.
I know that if I ever told my parents that I didn't feel like going to school, I would likely have seen the next week before anyone else got there.
Is there no one who monitors the students attendance and follows up on it? We seem to find the money for all kinds of other things so maybe it would be wise to make sure the students are in the school?
Confused ask. To post 12:47would you be so kind, to post the law, dealing with profit's, from the electric plant.
4:48 I say for worse.
TERM 4:56, why are you ok with this?
825... You are missing the point....I know that there are many great students that pass the OGT with no problem...I'm saying I have more problem with the English speakers who refuse to do their work than any one else. Until we change the minds of a select group of parents and students, we will never pass the test. If that last sentence doesn't apply to you, I thank you for what you and your student is doing. It's sad that some ruin it for everyone else. If you can figure out how to motivate these kids,,,you will be made king forever...
6:31 How can we expect the children to believe school is important if their parents don't?
6:48 I'm presently looking for the same law. Along with the intent of it.
9:11 We are a nation of laws. Don't like them go through the proper channels to change them.
I guess I'm also aware that the more uneducated people among us the worse things will be.
11:07 As long as we are a society that glamorizes MTV and the likes things probably won't change. Getting a good life and having 'Bling' on TV looks simple.
Unlike in real life.
Culture? I don't know maybe it's just the new lazyness?
You must realize this world owes you a living? You didn't ask to be put here,did you?
Look I'm all for fairness but...
ripping up roads and burying lines is not the solution - any time they do sewer or water lines under the road the funding for that comes from their respective funds, and the ROAD comes from road funds. You can't use electric funds for roads. These grand ideas have been proposed...and researched....if there was a way to use electric fund money they would have been.
6:06 If the city decided to bury electric lines under the street wouldn't the electric department be responsibly to repair the street?
I believe that was the point 6:58 was making.
When Dominion East Ohio ripped up my sidewalk and part of the street to replace the gas lines, the gas company replaced the sidewalk and part of the street.
I see no difference if the city electric company just so happened to rip up some nasty roads to bury the electric lines (which would save on maintenance in the long run, by the way); the utility that damaged the street should have to fix it.
If you're playing catch with your child and throw a ball through my window, aren't you the one who pays for it? That's how I was raised...the city should be that way too................
They would be responsible to repair....NOT repave.
Looking at this thought of burying utility lines underground, the idea is absurd. It sounds great when you first hear it but there are so many costs that have to be accounted for that it would never be viable. The cost of the trenching and restoring alone would break the Bank. This doesn't address the amount of engineering man hours or the costs for reconnecting each customer.
Additionally, when you bury power lines, what do you propose to do with phone and cable facilities? Those companies are not party to this.
Finally, anyone who really thinks there is less maintenance because everything is underground is fooling themselves. When things need repair, you are talking a lot more man hours because of the digging involved. After all, winter weather in NE Ohio doesn't present any problems, right?
ALL THE TEACHERS ARE ON THIS BLOG SO THEY WILL PUT THE SPIN ON ANYTHING THEY CAN JUST SHUT UP AND PAY FOR IT AND IF YOU TEACHERS DONT MAKE GOOD MONEY DONT SEND YOUR KIDS TO SCHOOL TO BE TEACHERS?? WE ARE NOT STUPID!!! PLEASE JUST PAY TAXES AND BE HAPPY PAINESVILLE!!!!!!!
10:37 I'm not sure what your commenting about? Streets and electric lines have what to do with teachers?
Remember you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
I guess you can say
the same thing when it comes to an education?
10:37 What are the teachers suppose to pay for? If you get a chance to see just how many teachers live inside the city you won't be telling them to pay for things here just like their leader doesn't live here neither do many of them.
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