"COUNCIL MEETING JANUARY 19,2010"
Council meeting will be held this Tuesday the 19th due to the Martin Luther King Holiday.
Four items on the agenda, purchase of two new patrol cars, plus three money issues.
Ordinance Re-issuing a note for Renaissance Park Land Acquisition. Last year the city re-issued a note for $240,350, which was for the Renaissance Business Park Property acquisition. The original price was $1.2 million.
We are re-issuing the note for $234,320.
We intend to purchase the note internally that we would borrow from ourselves.
However the financing document must still meet all formal standards, thus the need for this Ordinance.
We will be told this is like the financing of your home? I never had to refinance every year? No.2 ordinance is even better.
Tom Green from the Electric department will give a presentation. Wonder if any on council will ask any questions.
After reading todays News-Herald I am thinking of asking council to bring up an ordinance to ban snowballs in the city. Also all brooms, and broom sticks should be licensed. You just can't make this stuff up!
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Everything passed at council last night. Of interest was that new councilman Fodor doesn't seem to crazy about the three minutes for council. Mr. Fodor ran on getting council to work together and I can only hope people pay attention to what hes trying to do. People with ideas other then your own are not the enemy. Everyones view point should be considered. With that said if a council person hears someone else mention that say fire hydrants should be cleared of snow, he or she doesn't have to repeat the request.
posted by terminator1 @ 7:17 AM
49 Comments
49 Comments:
Brooms and broomsticks only in Painesville. Everyone should be arrested and illegal deported. That won't happen our Judge will let all that slide. He wants higher office? I'm torn if its a good idea for him to attain a higher position, or just let him screwup Painesville more?
THE TWO ADULT MALE MEN SHOULD BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME THEY STARTED THROWING SNOWBALLS AT THE SCHOOL KIDS, ALL UNDER 18.
JLammers@News-Herald.com
What started out as a friendly snowball fight Friday afternoon in Painesville turned into a violent melee, sending one man to the hospital, police said.
Jeremy Lawson, 22, of Painesville, who was home on leave from the United States Marine Corps, was taken to TriPoint Medical Center, where he reported to police that he suffered a laceration to the top of his head and a broken jaw, Painesville Police Lt. Troy Hager said.
Lawson and 21-year-old Allan Ash Jr. of Painesville Township were outside Lawson’s mother’s home in the 200 block of Liberty St. when the incident occurred at 3:09 p.m., Hager said.
A group of seven Hispanic males were walking back from Harvey High School when they started a snowball fight; Lawson and Ash later joined in, Hager said. One of the children threw a snowball, which shattered a window of a house, belonging to Lawson’s mother.
The boyfriend of Lawson’s mother came out of the house and began yelling racial slurs at the children, who then scattered, Hager said. Lawson’s mother discouraged the racial slurs, told her 45-year-old boyfriend to leave and went back inside the home.
Later on, a group of 20 Hispanic males returned to the house, carrying broomsticks and brooms. Hager said they challenged Lawson and Ash to a fight.
Lawson’s friend was not injured in the fight, Hager said.
Two 17-year-old Painesville boys are considered suspects in the case, but have not been charged, Hager said. The incident is being investigated as a felonious assault and police are awaiting more witnesses to step forward.
Anyone who has information on the fight, should call the Painesville Police Department at 440-392-5840.
My question is, Why were Lawson and Ash attacked? They were not the one accused of saying anything racial. This was a premeditated attack! They should have called the police. Instead they decided to get brooms and broomsticks and go to the location. When they left their houses with the collected weapons they had ever intention of going there to injure these people. All 20 need to be charged. If it were 20 whites that premeditated an attack on two hispanics, charges would have already been filed! How much longer do we have to put up with Painesville's policy of turning a blind eye to what is really going on in our city!
I agree. If you want to get away with a crime in this city, just make sure you are hispanic. Even in court, if they get caught driving without a license, the judge FEELS SORRY FOR THEM, gives them a tap on the wrist -- probably in the form of a warning -- and lets them go. I believe that is what he was quoted saying in the newspaper, wasn't it?
Wonder if any of the family's of these Hispanics were recipients of the Marine's Toys For Tots?
You know, you have to wonder what the pay off is for our city leaders with this whole welcoming of the illegals, and then looking the other way to all the problems they are causing and all the laws they are breaking, don't ya?
I don't think its so funny if someone is sent to the hospital with a broken jaw.
Yet no arrest was made. Whats wrong with yhis picture other than the fear expressed by the police force to mexicans. Go eat your taco's and ignore your job.
4:28 Finally someone else along with myself has noticed how ineffective the PPD is. They have very little interest in what happens here. They for the most part are hired guns who run home at the end of there shift. They don't want the hombres to follow them.
I don't believe the general perception of the residents in town is that the Painesville Police being scared or ineffective when it comes to the hispanic population in town.
It does appear that the administration is willing to overlook things just to avoid a problem. Remember; The easy way.
After an investigation an arrest will be forthcoming give them a chance to do their jobs.
Sticks and stone can brake your bones, but names will never hurt me. Well broomsticks in this case broke some bones and names didn't physically hurt anyone here.
Interesting how the crowd that returned added up to 20. I am waiting to see how this turns out. Painesville can use that $70,000 grant for racial/gang crimes.
I wonder if this applies here.
Q. What does the charge inciting a riot mean and what will happen?
A. Under federal law, a riot is a public disturbance involving an act of violence by one or more persons who are assembled in a group of at least three people. The act of violence must be one that presents a clear and present danger of injury to another person or damage to another person\\\'s property. Threatening to commit a violent act in such a group situation that could injure another person or damage property is also considered a riot if one of the persons in the group has the ability at the time to carry out the threatened violence.
Inciting a riot applies to a person who organizes, encourages, or participates in a riot. It can apply to one who urges or instigates others to riot. It does not apply to someone who merely advocates ideas or expresses beliefs, if those ideas and beliefs do not involve advocating violence.
The federal crime of inciting a riot carries a possible penalty of up to five years in prison a fine.
State and local governments also have laws that make it a crime to incite a riot. The penalties range from fines only to jail time. It is important that the law, even if only a municipal ordinance, specify the conduct that that is prohibited with sufficient definiteness that ordinary people can understand what conduct is prohibited.
If you have been charged with inciting a riot, I recommend you seek out a criminal defense lawyer in your area who can tell you exactly what conduct the law prohibits in your jurisdiction, and advise you as whether the law is subject to a challenge on the grounds that it is unconstitutionally vague--either because it fails to sufficiently set forth what conduct is prohibited, or fails to set minimal guidelines for police to use in enforcing the law.
Well, here we go again. Someone here said to me "What is you a fraddy cat, you big baby"
Well my reply was that I was able to take care of myself. I will always look for a way out or an avenue of escape first, but at a last resort I WILL defend myself and my family.
Here, it looks like a few people were insulted and a few more returned. Not looking for an avenue of escape but an avenue of attack. They brought weapons with intent to harm someone and harm they did. They broke someone's jaw. As someone said, if this was 20 white men or even just one, they would all be in jail right now. VD would be calling all the news media and the local officials demanding that they be locked up for good.
I too, will be looking for answers and justice here. Sorry, insults don'e justify physical violence. This needs too be handled fairly and justly or things will only get worse. Much worse.
To our police department and our court system, get the facts and do a thorough investigation and deal with the guilty party or parties firmly and not just a slap on the wrist. Handle this poorly and we might just get groups of vigilantes roaming the streets. Just one more thing to lower the perception of Painesville.
The white men started in on the under age boys, does not matter if they are white or brown, that is breaking the law.
The men should have acted like men and stayed out of the snowball fight, and when the boys came back they should have called the police insted of comeing out to fight, there is more to this story then you all know.
The payoff, as someone above asked:.......Flood the city with non voters and it is much easier to keep the established regime in power.
As newcomers try for the office they split the remaining vote, look at the last 3 elections, it is easy to see how the "good ole boys" remain in power.
Afew of you have posted the names and records of some involved. I will save them if any are charged with a crime. Presently no one has been charged with a crime.
Well, I wasn't there so someone who was needs to come forward with the facts. From what I read in the paper and the comments after and some things here, this seems (to me) a likely scenario.
A group of kids, reported as Hispanic were walking home from school. Harvey would make them older teenagers. Seventeen year olds are being investigated. Yes, seventeen is considered a child or youth. Yet, at seventeen, they still broke someones jaw. A business owner and another home owner stated in their comment in NH that snowballs were thrown at their windows too. They got to the house in question and finally broke a window. That's when this whole thing escalated. The boyfriend came out and yelled (racial) because the window got broke. I would have yelled too just not with racial remarks. Not clear when the Marine and friend came out but this is probably when they started throwing snow balls too. Now I'm sure they said some things but at the same time this group of Hispanics had a few things to say themselves. At this point, only a window was broke and a few insults shouted probably both ways.
This is where it all changes. A group of 20 returns with weapons. Things change from simple vandalism and name calling to criminal assault. A snowball fight is just plain stupid. What if someone was sitting under that window that was broken? But returning with broomsticks and actually using them to break someone's jaw is criminal and the person or persons involved need to be charged.
Hispanic, White, Black, 17 or 18, doesn't matter. This all started when these students started throwing snowballs. It finally ended when 20 males with weapons broke someones jaw. We need to put a stop to things like this or there will be roving gangs of youth all over Painesville. This is just so much more than a simple case of assault here.
Talked to an old gardener the other day & asked him what his best plants were.
His reply;
"put them all in the ground and tell them to grow, the ones that don't make it, well they had their chance. You know I'm 75, don't have time to wait around for things to happen or recover, move on."
Maybe this city needs a 75 year old gardener running city hall.
MP
Term, the records of the 2 adult males are open to the public, both of them are in some kind of fight or crime all the time, I can't belive the one is in the service, the list of there crimes came right from the Painesville Muni.court web site, you should post it so all of you people that think it was the brown people were at fault, the ones that came back were wrong, but the so called men, should not have come back outside, they should have call the police.
2:18 "the brown people were at fault? Tell me no one has been charged should I also list other suspects? their legal status? Their court records. Its going to be hard finding the true innocents here. Who was gulity? Who broke the window, the persons jaw? Let the police investigate. The men should not have come back outside? Maybe the 20 men should have called the police? Question all around and there were more then two people using poor judgement.
2:18
I also checked the court site. I saw a few cases concerning the two men. If you read the whole name and check the birthdays you will find that that list isn't as big as you claim. I did not see one case that involved assault or fighting. Also, the number failed to convince me that they got into trouble all the time.
The snowball fight is one thing, but the fight with broomsticks is another. If the fight happened at the house with a broken window then the Hispanics came to fight. If the two white men followed the Hispanics to their homes then they started the fight. The only report so far the snowball fight caused was a broken window and some name calling. The returning with broomsticks resulted in the broken jaw and those are the ones who committed a crime of assault.
to 4:24...You are right about what one of the motives is in keeping the city flooded w/ non-voters...another is that the business community likes it too, and that translates into dollars...they may not be paying their fair share of the tax burden but SOMEONE is....either the families that they live with or the taxpayers themselves. These non-voters also spend a great deal of money...clothing, food, cars, entertainment etc. Business owners aren't picky about who their customers are...just whether or not they have that green folding paper. And business owners support candidates and causes, which gives them a disproportunate amount of power in running things. Of course there is also the employment factor (not to be confused with the power factor elsewhere on this blog :) ...cheap labor means more profit...and so the business community backs the old guard to keep the status quo. When I think about the state of the nation I realize that it isn't really removed from us in a far away city but starts right here on the local level and works its way right up the political food chain. That's why I like this blog..because it does bring some awareness to us locals...
Where is the arrest frome our brave men in blue?
If any of you had any doubts about the direction this city is headed. It mob rule. and no one at city hall cares.
Term quit sticking up for the cops. You along with some of the rest of us know what the problem is, "our hands are tied" the city manager want no problems with that community, along with Joe Hada telling them they better not "profile" them.
The cops are scaried to do there jobs.
7:38: I agree with you that the nation starts right here at the local level. As you already know, it is our duty to watch over things carefully at our local level and then branch out from there to our county, state and country.
That's why I, too, like this blog so much. There's a lot wrong here in our city, and it's the duty of the citizens to make sure it gets straightened out. If our city leaders won't do it, then it's up to us to find a way to make them do it, to get them out of office, and/or do it ourselves.
I wonder if all the children of the illegals helped us with school money for our new schools. Is that part of the scenario also?
On the same note as above, I believe that it is our job to get the illegals out of our city. We need to find a way to stop this nonsense right here at home while we are also trying to make it happen nationally.
Chief Smith we don't have those problems here. No chief we have even worse ones! Did your boss make you say that or is that your own ignorance?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
$:53 To the rest of us I think this is someone trying to get under peoples skin. If he was " He would print his name.Macho"
I have removed the above to comments , because I feel I used bad judgement in letting anyone post a threat about killing someone. It was probably someone just trying to raise the temperature on the site. That said I should have ignored it.
Term, I'm sure it is someone just trying to tick people off. The crime needs to be dealt with. People need to be charged, even if a certain judge chooses to give the usual slap on the wrist. We've all been called names. However, how many of us have left the location, went home, gotten 20 people,who collected their weapon, went back to the location with every intent of injuring someone? Had it happened differently, a punch was thrown when called a name it would be a reaction. This was a premeditated attack. Law enforcement needs to step up and get this under control. I say charge all 20 with assault with a deadly weapon, intent to cause bodily harm, trespassing (if it occured on the property) inciting a riot and anything else on the books that would apply. If the police department does not take a stand on this, we will see more and more of these attacks happen in our city!
The 1-18-10 News Herald Chief Smith stated there are no racial issues here in Painesville. HUH?
Shooting on Marion or Mildred, snowball fight turned racial and many others I'm sure I could mention if I thought hard enough.
True story- at my former work place a PC policeman came in. The conversation turned to an incident and several people were talking. When asked why the PPD aren't concerned about some of the situations we were talking about- know what he said? He said "I DON'T LIVE HERE". This is one reason I feel there should be a residency rerquirement for those working for the city. Maybe if he lived here he would care- even if just a little more.
SG
I have read comments here and comments in the NH and there are some that mention the racial words that the boy friend should not have used. I have been asked by coworkers if this kind of thing happens in Painesville all the time.
Well, one thing I haven't heard is that the 20 Hispanics made a racially motivated assault on 2 white males. If Veronica wants to claim racial profiling and accuse the local sheriffs and ICE of singling out Hispanics, then she and other Hispanics better realize this was just as racially motivated as her claims, even worse. Someone is in the hospital. Yes, they were children with snowballs. They no longer were children when they returned with weapons. Regardless of age, anyone who injures someone is guilty of a crime. Which court they get tried in not important, but they need to be held responsible, legally and financially. No slaps on the wrist.
I'll say it again. Let's not overlook the fact that this was a RACIALLY motivated attack carried out by the Hispanics when they return with weapons to hurt someone. The white boyfriend started with words but the Hispanics used physical violence to end it. If the police were called twice, it only goes to show that they can't stop or prevent the violence. Unless the justice system deals with this quickly and firmly, I believe we will only have more racial violence in the future.
The Hispanic community can no longer claim innocence and hard working is what applies to them. In other words, you can't claim only the Whites and the Blacks are the racist. You now have to include yourselves, the Hispanics.
Remember the gang incident last year on Jackson by the post office? How about the gang incident on Rt. 20 between Rockwood and Parkview several months ago. No, Chief Smith. We don't have a racial problem. We have a full blown gang problem!
5:48 If people see that nothing happens when theres a mob there will be more mobs. The incident near the post office, along with the one on Erie St. was anyone arrested? People will feel empowered if no arrest are made nobody knows nothing, nobody knows who. It will only escaslate. What will happen if people take things into their own hands?
I went to school with one of the white male snowball throwers, I would bet a ton of money, getting involved in a snowball fight with the others, was not for fun and games.
After watching the council meeting tonite I don't think Mrs. McMahon is a fan of this site nor your take on city matters.
In the future I suggest you bring a broom to the meetings only as a defensive weapon!
TERM, I don't have cable. What happened at council last night? Why is there mention that you upset Rita. How did she indicate that she doesn't like this site? Whatever, keep it up. This site is the only life boat this city has.
Look at the Downtown post for your answer. We just had a small disagreement.
Wow! You some of you guys are truly crazy. Not all of you but some. You claim that the police are afraid? Go to the citzen police academy and do a ride along and tell me a different story at the end of the shift.
Are the police ignoring it or was the crowd gone when they got there? Did the victims know the suspects names and addresses? Can they, will they ID them? Are the victims cooperating with the investigation? Maybe ask those questions before you spout off that the police are doing nothing. Go up to the police station and ask questions, don't assume...you know the rest.
Great comment on the racial situation involing the shooting. Black on black shooting, please feel free to explain the racial implications of that one. Why do you people just crank off ignorant comments without looking into what is really going on?
The people in Mass. know what is happening in this country and decided to send a signal.
To Anonymous at 2:47pm..since you want to make such ignorant statements, let’s start with your grammar and spelling…”The cops are scaried to do there jobs. The proper spelling might be “scared” and “their”, buy a dictionary next time. While you’re at it, look up the word “ignorant”, put on your little slippers and click your heels three times while saying “I am ignorant”.
There are only two things the Painesville Police might be fearful of, one is named Rita and the other is named Bob. Obviously you know who Rita is and people who work for the city definitely know who “Trucker Bob” is. And if you still don’t know who he is, look for Kevin Lynch’s SUV or Chief Smith’s Ford Taurus rolling about the city..good ole Bob is normally in the front passenger seat. And if you still don’t know who Bob is, drive through the underpass and he is normally there smoking, swaying back and forth, and not from the wind either…
So anyway, “cops that are scared to do their jobs”, hmm,.,that is a bunch of garbage. I know that productivity has gone down (stop by and get a copy of their yearly report), but that has little to do with your ignorant remarks of being scared.. I wonder what might be the cause of that..hmm.. Could it be court cases constantly being pled down or thrown out..it’s the daily “Let’s Make a Deal morning show starring our very own Judge Mike”. “Today’s contestant is Mr Crack Dealer..if you plead guilty to this minor charge of not wearing a seatbelt..I will throw out the other five major drug dealing felonies against you”. “Oh and I need for you to stand in the square and hold this sign “I’M A MISUNDERSTAND DRUG DEALER..PLEASE HELP ME..so I can get some more publicity and my own tv show”.
Let’s see what else..hmm..maybe they are too busy racing around the city having to deal with Hal constantly calling in of minor parking complaints. “Hey Officer Friendly, could you hold off on going to that domestic dispute..Councilman Hal just called and said there is a vehicle parked in excess of the meter time on the square that he wants addressed RIGHT NOW and a return phone call from the supervisor about what was done and how we can avoid these problems in the future..”.
I’m sure there are many other issues these officers have to deal with that we are unaware of. Some of the more ignorant people of this city expect officers in a few short minutes to solve problems that they and the city have created themselves of the over years and allowed to fester and grow. While I may not agree with everything Term says or writes, you should at least be thinking or in the know of what is going on in our city, so you can make your own educated and informed decision on these matters instead of simply pointing fingers and spewing garbage you know nothing about.
8:00 Great comment, Sorry I have no idea who "Trucker Bob" is.
The officers probably don't want to ruffle someone feathers thats not being scared or fear. Also thinking whats the point if all anyone receives is a slap on the wrist. I have found all members of the police department have always acted professionally this isn't an easy city to be a police officer in. Are they perfect no, do they make mistakes, sure. The only comment I can add is there have been many comments about the mob violence, and 7:22 makes a valid point. Sad but my military friends tell me the only one who will be held accountable is the Marine when he returns from leave.
In almost two years of this blog. I can't remember anyone complaining about a police officer. There was a comment once about one that works in the court.
On the street, they serve the residents the best they can.
The comment on Hal? Come to your own conclusions.
Hey 8:00, unless I'm reading it wrong, I think 2:47 was making the same point you just made. I don't think 2:47 was saying that our police are scared, per se. I think 2:47 was saying that they had to do what Rita and Hada want them to do, and that thier hands may be tied because of the leadership in our city. 2:47 can correct me if I am wrong, but Ithink you two agree. For what it's worth, I agree with you both.
About Hal -- the only thing his being elected was good for was to get rid or Horvath, and that was a very good thing.
As for our judge, I don't think any more of him than you do.
All I can say for police department is hopefully a new chief can bring some sort of change to their organization and deal with the internal issues that few outside of those brick walls have any knowledge of. Unqualified personnel being removed from the road patrol and hidden in offices, K-9 officers who are off more than they are at work, stacks of reports languishing for months at the city prosecutors office, oh yes plenty of issues for the new chief to deal with.
10:52 Chief Smith was MOTY on the blog. I think he does an outstanding job. He will be missed.
I believe you have posted in the past, you have a real problem with the K-9 Units why?
I sometimes think people think if Law&Order can find and convict someone in an hour thats the way it is in the real world. Its not.
No issues with Chief, yes he will be missed. My problem with the K9s, maybe you should ask the cops of that department what they think of them..I'm sure you will get an earful. A whole lot of money for a PR tool that is rarely ever at work and does little when they are there. Maybe that is why one of the candidates for Chief has said they will be gone if he is appointed, good decision.
NEWS FLASH
There are gangs at both Heritage & Harvey schools.
Found this out recently. If you see kids with their pant legs tucked and rolled up toward the knee(kinda like we used to do when riding a bike so our pant leg didnt get caught in the chain)these kids are in middle school. If you see some with tattoos behind their ear, those are the high school gang members.
I wish we could get that gang resistance program going here that Cleveland has.
Oh, I forgot there are NO GANGS here.
Wake Up Painesville Police.
BB
I coached Little League for years. I guess I was naive but it took a parent/school volunteer to point out to me what clothing or things belonged to the different gangs. That was 9-12 year olds. There was even a 10 year old who took a gun to school. Then it was bandanas. Wouldn't know exactly what to look for now but I can recognize trouble when I see it. Drive around town when it is warmer and you will see groups of 6 or more teens, young adults loitering on the various street corners. I guess these are prayer groups if you ask the city. Ask a teacher or a policeman. They can tell you who's trouble and who's not. Since these gangs don't register with the Chamber of Commerce, how can the city be so sure there aren't gangs. Remember, young gang members become older gang members and the crimes only get worse.
Our safety forces will have there hands tied because the safety director is the city manager and she wants things done here way.
I think the city should begin a safety force committee in which concerned citizens could bring their concerns to the police & fire.
SG
We use to have a Safety Committee. What happened?
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