"FIRST GUEST POST"
JT. posted this and I thought it was a good question.
Just what is the goal of having all the cities employees living in the city? Remember that I live here and would never talk down the city. BUT I ask of why they have to is important to you.
Intelligent banter welcome. JT.
posted by terminator1 @ 12:16 PM
33 Comments
33 Comments:
Let me be the first to say that I am honored to have this chance. I know that there are valid reasons for the administrators and department heads living in the City as they may have responsibilities that require a quick response, but past that, I really don't know the validity to the argument. Why 100% compliance is still my question. Is it in case there is an emergency phone call at City Hall that needs answered? JT
TERM, re-reading the question I see that it says "barter", not the intended "banter", I feel silly with that type-o. JT
The change will be made. As far as the question there is something going thru the Ohio courts having to do with "home rule" if the cities have the right to make this a rule of employement. Toledo, Lima, and Cleveland have this in their charters.
Term - you know all of the answers to these questions.
Live within, you say nothing to save your job - live on the outside, you can say what you want to say as you are a silent ghost and you do not loose your job!!
I know that several cities require this of "certain" employee's that need to be there for emergencies and so forth, I just do not see the validity in saying the every employee "must" live within the borders of any municipality, not just here. Why have the secretary in the recreation dept. live close? See what I mean, does not make sense. Now if they offered up housing allowances or something as a perk, maybe then, but why else do that? I know, more questions and no answers. JT
explain to me why living in the city would make you a better employee? if you have a job in painesville like at fasson or american roll form are you a better employee because you live in the city or on the same street?
i guess we should throw that old constitution out the window with the bill of rights. are city employee's to be treated differently? are they to be discriminated against and being told where they have to live? what next? are they going to be told what street they can live on and what street they can't live on?
i with j.t. i want to hear some intelligent discussion on this, not some mr/ms dumas comments.
maddog
If you want to make them live int he city you can try to put it in your charter but you will be paying legal fees to the Supreme Court just like Cleveland is.
To me its dumb to put anything so trivial or anything so without a purpose on the books if it is going to get nothing but huge legal bills. If the city did it and cost me that much money I'd be upset.
I know that I feel that if there is a city job available it should go first to someone living in the city. After all, residents are the ones paying the bills for these things. If this were in the charter to begin with, and someone agrees to that job with that stipulation, where is the lawsuit? You would have gone into this knowing. It's like agreeing to work Bingo when you sign your kid up for private school, and then complaining about it later. You agreed to it. Shut up. I totally agree that city employees should work in the city. You can't go back now and make this retroactive, but your certainly can implement it for new hires.
"I totally agree that city employees should work in the city." I agree with you 100%. It would be a real waste wouldn't it? Painesville employee's working in Mentor, I say hell no! Sorry the post just spoke for itself and as always a clear thought process never made it to the table. JT
"where is the lawsuit?"
Read the papers
If we only had a couple of nurserys in Pvll then we might have most of the people working and living here!!!!!!!!
the All Mighty JT has spoken -- again, and again.
i believe the plan to only hire people living in the city is discrimination. you lose a large list of persons that could be better qualified for the job, need less training, and have better job histories. hire the best person for the job and don't discriminate should be this city's policy.
person's who live outside the city and work for the city pay 2% income tax. i realize they dont pay property tax, but city property taxes are generally lower than the townships. i can attest to that because i have lived in both places. in fact it is alot cheaper living in town than in the country.
i give the poster credit for his opinion and beliefs, but i believe that their system if implemented would be subject to problems. the policy of the best person for the job can be defended in discriminatory law suits which the city has experienced in the past. again my question is how will an city employee be a better employee if he lives in paineville city?
maddog
"i realize they dont pay property tax, but city property taxes are generally lower than the townships." where have you been? Painesville city pays the highest property taxes in the county! The poorest community pays the highest taxes.
Why does JT need to be a featured guest here? He has his own blog where he can be king of the hill. What an ego. His opinion mean more than mine?
Your opinion means as much as his does. He asked a valid question and I let it become a Guest Post. I will do this with anyone. JT. is just not known as Anonymous, so he got credit for the post. Madpotter, Charterlady, KAREN,anyone can post a question.RELAX
i would disagree with the poorest community pays the most taxes. my taxes for my painesville home were/are less than my township home making it cheaper to live in town. then electricity is cheaper as well. painesville offers some definate advantages, its just the lifestyle you want. also i am comparing dollar amounts not tax rates.
do have an answer to the original question?, or are you going to be a mr/ms dumas that side track this post? i have not heard from any of you pro city employee livers except one poster with a plan and a reason for his plan. i dont agree with it because it is discriminatory against the best employee for the job to serve the city and its residents.
maddog.
Only Fairport Harbor has a higher tax rate than Painesville City. [check the county site] Maddog what was the value of the two homes? You come into town get a fat salary then hitail it outside the city? Why? all 80% of you? With these numbers the city shouldn't worry about giving you and others a pay raise go work in your community see if they would higher you? Honesty Maddog
Dumas, you might be right to put up with this!
yes, Painesville City has the second highest tax rate in the county. Your houses must have been of varying value. Value for value you would pay more property taxes in the city. FACT!
Now theres something to do a study on.
All the complaining and the name calling and still no valid answer to the simple question here, "why does a City employee NEED to live in the City?" And maddog's other question is also valid "what makes an employee better if they live in the City?"
And to the person that slams maddog for working in the City and living outside, are you for real? I don't think I have ever heard a more one sided argument in my life. I assume since you are so high and mighty that you work, live,shop, and recreate all within the City limits right? Otherwise, why cast stones anyway? I live here but if I don't work here am I a bad person in the town where I work? I think tolerance has taken a wrong turn along the way.
Is anyone out there willing to make their point valid by answering the question, or should I just expect to be called more names and listen to others be insulted? "INTELLIGENT BANTER WELCOME". JT
to anonymous, that i know now as mr. dumas-because you side tracked again. to get off the mr. dumas list answer the question as to why if i lived in the city i would be a better employee? i care about my job and help folks out in this town.
i don't high tail out of town, i opened up a new business here and spend my evenings and weekends in town. I started a business that save people money and focus on Painesville residents because of their inexpensive electricity. i donate to causes, volunteered and volunteer time to painesville community organizations and consider painesville my home town.
i do as much business as i can in painesville. i was born here. i lived in painesville and it is much cheaper to live here which is positive for the city. i chose to go back to country living because that is the way i grew up.
the 80% of us that work in painesville and live else where are not the problem, look with in your community.
the problem is apathy. then those who suffer from the affliction take it out on others and make fun or complain about others with concern or civic pride for our town. don't believe me?, just look what they wrote above about jt and can't put their name to it.
take notice at the city booths, recreation programs, and community events. count the employee's volunteering their time, a lot don't live in the city.
i noticed this with the electric plant employee's as of recent volunteering at the halloween fest in the park. the lady who ran party in the park does not live in town, nor work for painesville and did not get a dime.
i know employees in this town that make a difference, save money, save lives and work hard at their jobs, but don't live in the city limits. i also know some that live in town and just go through the motions at work. i see who gets to work early and stay late around the city shops, you'd be surprised.
i will not succumb to your apathy and i know my fellow city employee's in the 80% club won't either.
maddog
JT. Maddog I agree with both of you, to a point. I don't care where a city employee lives. The city department directors should at least live in the city if for no other reason to see how the city is being run first hand. I would even say the Police, or Fire Chief don't have to live here as long as they can get to city hall from home in at least 10 minutes. Live in the city? our last to Assistant City Managers didn't/don't even live in Lake County let alone the city.I think what people were trying to say was they would like these people to have more of a stake in the city than a job. Almost 4 years ago a re-tired city firefighter attended a "Meet the Candidate Night" at Huntington School and berated the city and its citizens as a bunch of stupid drug using bottom feeders. He stated he wouldn't live here if they gave him a house. I know this is only one person, but if you wanted 80% of the employees to live in town, you would make changes to get people to WANT to live here. The new school buildings are a good start, and with some educational credibility we may start making steps in that direction.
I know Maddog and I am glad he is a city employee who cares about Painesville.
Just because JT posts with his initial, he is still anonymous if we do not know who he is. You may know who he is but he is still anonymous.
So send an idea for a post that "I" like and maybe it will be a guest post. Just watch the language.
why warn me about language? I have never used bad language here.
I know that how? Anomymous comments with profanity alot.
"Anonymous said...
why warn me about language? I have never used bad language here."
Now that's funny.
I have offered TERM to know who I am and he declined. Go to my site and look, I provide email if you like. I am not hiding behind anything. But posting as anonymous you have less juice and can hide behind the nasty comments with absolutely no reckoning.
And everyone say "HE", how do we know that? Seems to be a sexist remark to assume I am a man...point here is "don't assume anything".
TERM, I posted prior that I am for the department heads and administrators living in the City. I think that they should as they are who needs to make the big decision's if something goes bad. As for the other departments I would agree that a quick response is needed for certain groups and I don't think that there has even been a time where the forces did not show up for an emergency. Look back at the flood. This town was crawling with police and fire and every other City department for that matter. No one took time off and they all got things done and no one lost a life, thanks to all their dedication. Even if they did not live in the City...they still performed as they had a stake here. God Bless them all. JT
JT. The "he" probably comes because of your past relationship with Diane's cat, just a guess.
the correct reference is to use a "he" when you don't know. Don't make more of this.
careful term, jt has not had a good week with animals and we would not want to rile up diane. i also sent him your message about alvin through his blog
maddog
Whoa.
This city (city manager) hires outside of the city because if all employees are within the city the following will and has happened:
Backyard barbecues - oops, a city employee will slip and tell it all.
City functions, many that are social, the "oops" will happen again and information will be divulged that the mgr, does not want the public to know.From there it will fuel opposition (as it has done) and this is just a claw in her neck. Hire outside this city and these folks are safe as they live in the most wonderful areas of Concord, Painesville Twp, Perry Twp, Madison Twp, Leroy, Chardon, etc etc.Outside this city, what the heck do they care what is going on as long as they can keep their jobs. This pattern of hiring has no relative bearing on the city finances - it is just a protection order on information.
Unfortunately, the outside hiring has not stopped the information process to we as citizens. It is now and will continue: and, we are so thankful that we can receive the info that we need, despite the hidden info from City Hall.
Thanks to the honesty of all of you; you are most awesome!!!!!!!!
wow, i did not realize it was this complicated and deep. funny i was hired before rita was cm. les must have taught her well. thanks for your information, now i suggest you take your meds.
maddog
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