BIAS IN PAINESVILLE?
Recently it came to the attention of a Ward councilman that a store on E. Washington St.started an outdoor restaurant called "SENIOR". Also putting up a canopy, and a large number of tables and chairs in away that it blocked most of the sidewalk where people couldn't get by. A resident ask an employee if they had permission to block the sidewalk from anyone? The employee stated that the owner had permission from the city. The employee and resident had a little verbal argument and the employee called the police. The police came and explained that the resident didn't handle the situation properly and should have called City Hall. Being Saturday he then called a councilman. After being told there was no violation, and after a final question from the resident, the Police Officer stated "My Hands Are Tied".
The owner of the store feels he is being singled out because his clientele is mostly Hispanic. He is not.
My question is would we let an Italian, German, Polish, Irish, French restaurant block a city sidewalk? I don't think two or three tables with a couple of chairs would have been seen as a problem, but this seemed over the top. What do you think?
posted by terminator1 @ 3:28 PM
62 Comments
62 Comments:
The sidewalk is not really blocked. A person can walk around in front of the sidewalk cafe'. "Senior" is a wonderful addition to our city, if you would really think about it. People pay money to go to far away destinations to have this experience. Eating "el fresco" is a treat! Everyone enjoys this in Europe. Why not PAINESVILLE? I wish we would have some other ethnic restaurants in our city. We need to capitalize on our differences. If we are legal residents of this city, then all is well!
The sidewalk is blocked period. this establishment takes all the parking spaces a CVS to boot. I walked in to CVS one Saturday and asked the clerk where are all the people,I had a hard time finding a parking place? She stated there all next door. I've been to Europe that store aint Europe. If we are all legal residents of this city, then all is well? You can not be a Legal Resident of the city if your not a legal resident of the Country.
KAREN
First that conplaining resident did not handle it properly. Why is he getting in the face of some poor employee over it? The employer could have told him anything to get him to put the tables out there. Secondly, I don't care what race the restaurant serves or who runs it, if they put tables out there they are going to be allowed to do it at least until someone complains THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS. Now if it is against the rules then it is against the rules and we might have a legitimate beef. The ordinances are online I am pretty sure. Someone should look them up paste or type it here and then we can discuss. (I would love to right now, just a little busy maybe later.) Then once we can establish a legitimate beef we ask council why they are allowed to do it. Maybe there is a reason they are allowed. Then you can say either make them stop or allow others to do it. Maybe the ordinance should include an exception for outdoor restaurants. I have no idea. Before you assume bias, get the full story. Why accuse the city of bias if they really aren't bias. That assumption is mudslinging. If I owned a restaurant and wanted to do it too, I'd be mad if someone threw a fit because they thought the city was biased and kept me from doing it too.
wow Karen hate on sister. I am sure they didn't create outdoor seating just for illegal immigrants. I am sure CITIZENS eat there too. I have eaten there. I am white. Would you assume I was illegal too? I have also eaten in Eurpoe and that is how it was in Europe where I was. It's a big place that Europe with many different styles of eateries. One thing you are good at is generalizing and stereotyping. But you don't have to stick yo what you are good at. Open minds, people, open minds.
Law don't have to be enforced and its better some aren't. Go to a book store you can buy a book with funny laws from across the country that are on the books but not enforced for good reason.
Mabye we should just ask council to limit it to just a couple tables. I think this is a good thing here. Let's not cut off our nose to spite our face.
I love that place. Who has eaten there? me and the other guy at least. Come on who else? And don't knock it til you try it.
They are trying to compete with the one on N State St and Conden Ct.
They started out as Mex. stores, do they have the right papers to serve food, the city needs to check.
Also the ice cream truck that has been out every night has to be stoped, they pull in to driveways to sell to people, kids walk behind the truck all of the time,
there is food being sold out of a van and station wagon that way too, these are run by Latinos, there is a house on W. Jackson St a few houses past Jackson Towers on the left that they cook food for these people to sell, just look for all of the freezers outside.
BIAS Your kidding. of course there is example A Mexican wants to open a used car lot in town and the city wants him to practicly build the cars there. How many cars per foot, so far from the curb,lights.Look across the street from the store, there is a used car and truck lot and where were his rules. did he have any, why is he allowed to operate in this manner, If this was owned by anyone like me i wood have citations.
If you dont apply for a food service license how does the health dept. know someones in business?
Maybe that store owner should pay the city his delinquent utility bills he left from his last business in town, before he starts asking for favors, and doing whatever he wants at this rate if he does well maybe he will move it out into the street he probably thinks he owns that to.
Look, this is not Europe and we do have ordinances. There should be no selective enforcement. If the sidewalk is not to be blocked, then it should not be blocked. Sure, people have been walking in the street or by the parking meter to get around. What about someone in a wheel chair. They could not safely get around on that slope. Nor should they have to. There is a reason the sidewalk needs to be cleared, and the city is not enforcing the ordinance for this establishment for some reason.
I have seen this canopy and an able bodied person can get around it with some effort. Now someone in a wheel chair or visually impaired would have a hard time getting around it. They would have to leave the sidewalk and go onto the uneven grassy area on the CVS side. To hinder access to a drugstore and or the hospital just a block away, isn't a great idea. Needs to be removed or scaled back in my opinion. This could become a safety issue.
That La Hispanica on State St. shoud be citied fo improper ventalation that smoke goes into your car as you drive by if this was a black man cooking ribs Rita would shut him down in a min. Mexicans love to play dumb, no comprenda
Give me a break. If you are cooking outside, you can't be expected to have a ventilation system. It just goes up in the air and is gone. What are they supposed to do if the wind changes directions. I've driven by there thousands of times and have never had an issue with smoke. You should be more worried about bullets flying into State St. than some smoke from a grill.
but what about the children??
This does not seem like a difficult problem to solve.
You are either violating an ordinance or you're not.
It has nothing to do with what type of restaurant it is.
So where do we get a copy of the city ordinance?
When the gallery was open this city was very strict about what kind of sign you could hang in front of your store unless of course you were "Grandfathered" in. It included fabric banners or hardscape....... we spent two months trying to find something that would fit the criteria of what the city wanted.
MP
Just heard from a reliable source that there was a shooting in Painesville.
Something is going on. All the cops are on OT.
Most likely there was.
We were sitting on our porch, Tue. at 4 pm when some guy dumped a stolen bike in our side yard, walked up to the side of our porch and stole a bike by our steps, we were on the porch and heard something jumped up and saw him head into the street, the police picked them up on Kensingtion and Liberty
Thank you Painesville Police Dept.
Sorry to jump off topic here but did anyone see the Plain Dealer today?
Vincent Carbone........ yes that would be the Carbone of Carbone Construction building the all the new schools plead guilty to conspiracy and money laundering to get work on the Lorain County Justice Center.
Mr Carbone will spend 6 months in prison and cooperate in the corruption case against former Lorain County Commissioner Michael Ross......this was his plea agreement.
The article states he is no longer involved in the company..........
Here is a link to the article:
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/07/cleveland_businessman_pleads_g.html
I thought Dr. Hanlon looked into this ? Must have not found a problem I guess. I hope someone was watching the change orders? That's where they can get you.
I find it hard to believe that no one at city hall had seen this during the week. A resident should'nt have to complain first before they investigate. Be angry at the person that turned in the complaint, that way if anyone else see anything wrong they will not go through the hassle of reportng it. Public servants, seem to be interested injust serving themselves.
Old and Tired.
Wow, the guy with the car lot whining. Your punctuation and grammar is amazing. Please repost so we can attempt to understand your complaint.
How do you know if they have a food service license? Are you just assuming they don’t? Don’t see where this is going.
They might now be enforcing the ordinance but do you even know what it is? Do you know if there is a reason not it enforce or maybe an exception? You assume corruption from the get go. How you know there is selective enforcement? Do you know someone else who was cited? Probably would just be smarter to scale it back. We should make every attempt to make it safe and conform to the rules, but not ruin a good thing.
“If it was a black man cooking ribs Rita would shut him down in a minute.” This is absurd. Improper ventilation? Did you make that up? Nobody is selectively enforcing this stuff based on race. You are making baseless accusations. Seems to be a trend on this blog. Quit slinging the BS. Find a fact.
He is talking about the car lot that is opening on Stage Ave. it is run by Mexicans,(the building looks great), They gave them some very strict rules.
the other place he is talking about is Federicos Auto on S.State St, true they don't have to park away from the street, and it is hard to pull in or out of Hillside Dr.
I saw on E.Erie St a few weeks ago someone was selling Ribs & Chicken out of there yard
You said youself Carbone is no longer involved in the company. So where is the scandal. Find a problem with the work here. Quit grabbing a straws. Another baseless accusation of some type of corruption. I hate to harp on this but someone has to call the the BS what it is. We have to be careful. Someone might read this blog and actually infer something from that. If we want to keep this a respected blog and on the legitimate side, we can let this crap slide by regardless of whether it should be dignified with a comment.
There are diff. companys building the schools not just one.
Give or School Board some credit, they know what is going on and would not get involved with crooks.
Nobody is angry at the guy who made the complaint. I think it was inappropriate for him to get in the face of an employee, though definitely. So I might think he is not that great of a person for that, but if the complaint is legit then it is legit. I don’t understand how you jump from them not handling a sidewalk obstruction to them being only interested in serving themselves. Your logical reasoning astounds me. Put it in perspective – IT’S A SIDEWALK OBSTRUCTION. Maybe they should push this aside and go look into that shooting. We don’t know if it violates the ordinance or if they have a reason for allowing it until we see the ordinance or we ask someone and get a real answer. Old and tired or old and grumpy?
First who cares who runs the car lot. Why does it matter if they are Mexican? I welcome the new lots. Drops prices for me and I get a better car for my money. Horray for competition and capitalism.
Carbone story is FACT V.Carbone was with the company when the school contracts were put out. TRUE alot of other Companys are doing the constrution, but Carbones Company is the GENERAL CONTRACTOR. If your not concerned fine, but the story is true. Sorry, but they did get involved with a crook. TERM>>
NO they did not you ---
Did they have any reason to know he was a crook? If you were in Hanlon's shoes would you have know to do anything different? Hind sight is 20/20. Has he ripped us off at all? No its not cool but where is the damage to us?
Thank you, there is no damage to us, they just want to start crap.
I would more than welcome the crap if it exists. I wasn't really asking those questions to be sarcastic, I was asking them to get answers. Just pushing the legitimacy factor.
Excuse me there anonymous do your homework and look at the "crap" Carbone has been involved with. I hope to heck somebody has been checking change orders on the school. I think it was a mistake for the school board to crawl in bed with Carbone as the General Cont. There were others who bid on the schools, why pick the one who is up on bribery and money laundering charges....... this was in the courts for years! Sends a great message to students and parents!
The board should have & could have done better. There are excellent General Construction firms out there how we awarded Carbone the contract is beyond me. Dr. Hanlon did not do his homework on this contractor. Did we have independent inspectors on this job?
I am stating facts and not starting anything..... go read the article. What is wrong with you that you would not question this company. It would be a cold day on the equator before I hired someone tied up in court with felony charges pending. Once again common sense has left the building.......
MP.
Different anonymous I think you are refering to but I am not saying this was all squeaky clean. I am saying where is all the damage. Sure the guy maybe dirty but how do we know he himself was involved? How do we know we got ripped off? If it has been in the courts forever then how long has he been gone from the company?
Maybe he was the low bid. If he was the low bid then how are we hurt. Yes lets question the company but lets not jump to the conclusion that we were ripped off.
Is the board doing better if we pay thousands upon thousand more for someone else?
I think this is only motivation to scrutinize what the company does but I don't think that a guilty plea by one guy who is now gone is worth the thousands of going with someone else. I say lets go through the books, find where they ripped us off and sue them for the money and make this job even cheaper. If they were the low bid and we get even more money back then this is win win.
Maybe it worked the other way though, maybe they know the eyes are on them and they are crossing all i's and dotting all t's and giving us better service than some contractor without all the attention.
I did not state we were being ripped off I am simply saying since this company is on board I wish there had been independent inspectors. A rep. from Carbone shows up at the school board meetings, gives a synopsis of what is going on and nobody asks any questions. YUP we are doing a great job....... I stood in my kitchen in disbelief when I heard this company had been awarded the school contract.
If you hire a company with any doubt of integrity it is prudent for the hiring firm to appoint an independent inspector. It is tax money. Independent inspectors keep records and ultimately keep people out of court and save money as there is complete independent documentation. There is no need for hindsight we need foresight.
appreciate the intelligent banter on the site tonight.
thanx,
MP
Carbone is one of the best General Contractors out there, and they are doing a great job with our schools and yes we are saving money on there bid.
The school board is on top of it, and watching what is going on.
MP just likes the drama she can start.
nope not about the drama it's about being intelligent with the schools money......... jury is still out.
and I still think it sends the wrong message to the public......
MP
are you watching what is going on in Cleveland with Russo and Dimora???????????? Buy a vowel and get a clue!
IS it just me but anytime you question anyone with the city or the schools they get very indignant. You are the "great unwashed " who are you to question anything? Who on that school board knows anything about construction costs? Would they even know if they were getting the shaft? Or are they upset that Madpotter brought this up for us to discuss?
Maybe their getting tired of telling people its nothing?
TERM>>
Well I agree. Inspection is wonderful. Just no assumptions of damage to us. It may look bad but it seems to be turning out nice. If foresight means going with someone else we may have wasted alot of money. Tacking on an independent inspector will probably still be under the next lowest bid. From what I have seen the schools are very well built and the consruction workers themselves are good guys. I have had two of them working on my house in the past. Some past boss of theirs might be a crook but I know the schools are getting top notch work done at the lowest price.
This Mr. Carbone was a member of his local school board in the Orange Village community. They made him resign,why? He didnt do anything wrong there.
Mr. Rellik
I do not work for the schools.
Mp likes to open it up thats all
This is an independent blog that posts "stuff" about what is going on in Painesville City.......... there are Carbone trailers and trucks parked all over this city.
You bet I am opening it up. There should be more people asking questions about what goes on.
I really don't care if you work for the schools or not.
It was in the Plain Dealer this morning and I think it is prudent to know what is going on. Do you read the paper? Carbone got pushed to the back burner due to a Federal investigation into possible corruption in Cuyahoga County. If you're in government I don't trust anyone any more. There are investigations from Alaska to Florida on a Federal level......... hmmmm think I'll call it trickle down......
MP.
When are you moving the rest of your property in to Painesville Twp.
How can people say there was no damage to us, if they havent looked or have they already looked? Was he really a school board member where he lives?
KAREN
What does the great unwashed mean? Honest question, just never heard the expression before. My comment was not that our school board checked it out completely by any means. I don’t know what they know about construction costs, but if they were the low bidder then what difference does it make about cost. If I pay him $50 and he embezzles 10 and still does a good job then aren’t I getting a better deal than paying another guy 80? Maybe I can sue him and recover for a total payment of 40.
"How can people say there was no damage to us, if they havent looked or have they already looked?"
How can you say there was? You seem to miss it when I say Lets Look into It. Lets scrutinize it. HOWEVER, until then, there is no reason to believe that damage exists. See the above comment.
Just someone trying to cause problems.
More Problems, Today pickets were out in front of New Harvey High mon-unon workers? Dont worry Carbones on the watch.
Went by there 6 times did not see any.
The "Great Unwashed" means the common, laboring people in society that need people on a higher economic and educational level to make the decisions for them.
TERM>>
News-Flash. Rewind back when the first press came-out about the investigation in Cuyahoga County. Besides officials names, they also scrolled company names.
Guess who was on the scrolling screen (but not yet investigated)??
Carbone Construction.
Not the first time nor the last that this company will be investigatd.
The names and positions have not changed and no one has left or divorced themselves from the corporate ladder.
See so many posts that demand answers and invetigative actions from others on this post.
Get-up and do your own investigative research and stop hiding and relying on others to do it for you!
This investigative process is really easy and smooth, thanks to the court docket reportings on the "net".
Again, the majority of folks in this city of the "Ville" want others to pursue the everything but they do not want to be bothered to do anything - other than to insult those who take the time to be EDUCATED/INFORMED/and always QUESTION the ACTS of THOSE THAT TAKE TAX DOLLARS.
Always remember that the lowest bidder is not always the one that will do a job that meets the standards: whether the standards are local, county, or state standards. Enter in massive change orders. If any company did their bidding homework, (other than unforseen asbestos/lead/etc) they would not be asking for change orders for computer light systems/driveway extensions/storm water avenues/sewer avenues - etc etc!.
The Great Question. Who are the Certified Engineers for these school construction projects? Are they Carbone employees? Given the record of this company for way too many years, has their certification been updated and confirmed - or are have they become just employees of labor?
What ever happened to the statements from the "Ville" that they will always have an ENGINEER on sight every day to insure that the construction is abiding by the cities codes?
We were told this when they started the farce Lighthouse Point project on Elm Street.
We went on sight for this project many many days: wow, we never ever found an Engineer sitting and monitoring the project.
If the charter and passing of a project requires this, then you best do what yo said you would do!
Get the DRIFT???
Way too much back-scratching going on here.
City Manager does not have a clue!
Way too much influence on her supposed agenda. An agenda that is being written by others, who have their own agenda for their bottom line.
Wake-up Rita. You had your days of glory in the minor community development era. For your own sake and those of your family, get out of the CATCH-22 that you are entrapped in!
The Carbones are gona send Vito down to crack some knees. Wanda yu thik yu dooin pay the man.
Man that was one long post from MP
Sorry I know it wasnt Madpotter.
TERM>>
Well they were wrong about Carbone being on the list with the stuff going on in Cuyahoga County now.
Easy to check on line.
"Way too much back-scratching going on here.
City Manager does not have a clue!
Way too much influence on her supposed agenda. An agenda that is being written by others, who have their own agenda for their bottom line.
Wake-up Rita. You had your days of glory in the minor community development era. For your own sake and those of your family, get out of the CATCH-22 that you are entrapped in!"
Aren't you complaining about a school project? What does the city manager have to do with this?
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