"DARKNESS AT THE EDGE OF TOWN" bruce springsteen
As some of you have commented (as well as myself agreeing to some degree with) "me not being the sharpest knife in the drawer" O.K., maybe it's me?
At the last council meeting I questioned council how and who pays the electric bill associated with Painesville's streetlight and traffic lights. What fund were they paid out of if only for the reason that since we don't produce electric power in Painesville anymore. We have to purchase it.
Saturday afternoon the administration answered my question with this response .
The city does not meter the street lights or the traffic signals. The power used is part of the monthly electric usage distributed by our system.
Did I miss the who and the how with this answer? If it's metered or not someone has to pay for it. Is it paid out of an electric fund account OR is it added to metered customers PCA?
The second part of my question was what and where and how do we get this $4,000,000.00 a year for keeping our power plant on stand-by?
The City's power plant participates in programs that decrease our overall monthly purchase power bill. Two of these programs are peak shaving and demand response. The peak shaving program is utilized to generate power during the highest usage hours during the summer. When successful the revenue generated by this program is shown as a credit the following year. The demand response program is when the power plant is available to operate when called upon during high usage. In this program the City receives a credit based upon the market conditions and auctions that have been finalized in previous years.
Key words here "when successful" ... Who determines success? well, have we been? Show me the money!
The City receives a credit from WHO?
The residents benefit from the City's participation in these programs by having lower net purchase power bills from our suppliers.
Am I to believe the way we get the credit is by operating our plant and not having to purchase off the grid? Hardly a credit, but more like paying yourself to produce power. If you look at the account balances our surplus seem to grow? All along with paying above average cost for power, 25/30 on the electric plant payroll with the idea we "might" produce power?
Should I be satisfied with these answers? Should you satisfied with them?
Please let me know.
posted by terminator1 @ 10:06 AM
15 Comments
15 Comments:
I love answers when they say a lot and yet tell us nothing.
Typical of politicians and bureaucrats isn't it?
I love the idea that we have a power plant that we keep open, never running, with the idea that we can fire it up and produce power IF needed.
Does this EVER occur?
Who in their right mind would give us $4M in cash or credit for this??
Would this ever occur in the private sector of business?? Hardly.
If this is actually a benefit to the electric customers of Painesville, do other actual power companies (like CEI) get money for letting their plants sit idle?
I have to admit that I don't know the answer but I can not believe they do so.
When CEI shuts down the Eastlake plant (and it will happen), will they get cash or credits the same way?
Just wondering.
If we were to produce electricity at our plant, and we produced $4mill billable, we that would be a credit....
I don't want the city to spend a zillion bucks for new hardware to meter our lighting and such. We citizens have to pay for it anyway, so why bother with a new bureaucracy.
Just as long as nothing else but lights signals pumps & city items are connected without meters, what's the point.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance!
11:15 Yes in the end we pay for it all. I guess my question is to how. Why are surplus funds rising? Maybe those accounts could chip in? Look something's wrong and I don't know what is connected and what isn't?
4 million billable? Like that's happened?
How is the light bill at the power plant paid for? Wonder if that's metered?
Term 12:49
What’s wrong is, we are paying more for energy than we ever have in our lives. The whole frigging country is. We also were accustomed to a little relief by having our own power plant. And the BIGGEST reason for high energy prices, nationally, is over regulation. Ours as well as other governments are allowing third world economies to burn coal and other cheap energy sources, and pollute the atmosphere, because their economies are "fragile." “We must "help them" so they can take our jobs some day.” While at home, our government stops the pipe lines, stops the coal, stops the nukes, stops the fracking, burning leaves in the fall and weenies roasts in the back yard.
Well, yeah. It takes a big plus to overcome a minus from 30 salaries and have a surplus. So you’re right, we won't be seeing a surplus, anytime soon.
Light bill at the light plant....its figured as a cost of power manufacturing, I'm sure.
I've watched bean counters ruin a smooth operation for many years. We should not get carried away here. (Not saying pvl power is smooth)
6:31 I don't know where your getting your numbers but we are paying less for power then we were told in 2006 that by 2015 it would be out of sight. Now less manufacturing, fracking, and general American energy independence is the reason.
Regulation What regulations do you want to rid ourselves of? Mercury content in the atmosphere, coal mining rules? Give us your ideas.
Countries like the U.S. must develop cheaper and cleaner power sources then fossil fuels bringing the rest of the world along with us. It's like I mentioned before the railroads didn't get rid of steam engines because they liked the looks of diesels. They understood the economics that they were more efficent.
Within 10 years I expect an industry of economical solar panels on roofs of homes. Just like the siding industry. Why? It will save money.
Maybe I'm wrong? But I believe we are on the brink of a new energy age.
I was just wondering out loud as you go by the power plant at night and see how it's lit up who's paying for that? Just a question along with how and why are surplus growing?
Painesville Power lines don't stop at the city limits, they venture out to Perry, Perry Township, Perry Village, North Perry, Concord, Painesville Township ect...Do these communities pay for their street lights, traffic lights? Are they metered? If they pay the City which fund receives the payment? Electric Fund or General Fund? I once was told that one third of the Administrators [city hall workers] salaries came from the Electric Fund. Lots of questions???
6:31
"Light bill at the light plant....its figured as a cost of power manufacturing, I'm sure."
This is the crux of the problem. There is NO power manufacturing going on in that plant. If there were, there would be no question but when we are buying power, how is that billed to the City and what fund pays for it?
It should not be a hard question to answer but apparently it is.
1:18 Bet nothings metered either.
1:14 There sure are a number of questions. If and when we get the answers it will become clear why/how we pay people to just sit around.
Sadly, all this has already been explained to you. The problem is, you have already made your mind up as to what the answers should be, so you won't accept the ones given to you.
Another commented about Eastlake. Kinda funny to me that none of you apparently know. Eastlake, up until January of this year, sat idle for a longer period of time than Painesville ever has. Ashtabula plant was the same way. And yet, they maintained a FULL staff the entire time, and that staff remained AT their respective plants "just in case." Painesville is no where near fully staffed and so would not be able to sustain an extended operation. The little bit they do run, however, saves the rate payers a lot of money. You write about other cities in prarie state that have seen their rates sky rocket. Painesville would be there too, if it weren't for the plant.
And to another commenter, yes, being able to generate helps to hold rates down in purchase agreements. If you can't understand that simple fact, you shouldn't bother with trying to understand anything else about the electric industry.
6:49 Yes I viewed the CSX coal trains above Rt. 2 also. The magic word here is it's no longer IDLE Be mad at me all you want but the previous administration bought outside power off the grid to make our power plant obsolete museum ? Odd we didn't fire up.
What I don't understand is why there is even a crew their? As I mentioned "show me the money" which you or no one else can.
I haven't seen any sign of our power plant holding anything down.
Defend all you want but the story will soon come to an end.
Just maybe the person e should be asking about street lights and who pays the electric bill at the power plant is 6:49?
Let's try this who is the owner of the lights, CITY OF PAINESVILLE, who owns the traffic lights CITY OF PAINESVILLE. The city pays a flat fee for those lights to the power fund. They also pay for other city builds to have power, sanitaries, and water. Now was that not easy.
10:34 But if there not metered how do they know how much to pay? Wish I could pay a flat fee. Who pays if it's not enough?
My point was when the power plant was making power the electricity generated there could be considered the cost of making power. Now they are just a parasite using and not producing. They should be metered.
10:34
Is it possible that you are that naive?
The CITY OF PAINESVILLE, as you like to write, is US! The City is nothing but the taxpayers. Therefore, when the City owes on a bill, it is the taxpayers who pay for that bill. You say that we pay a flat fee. To whom?? With what??
The questions was, and still is, where does that money come from and where does it go? Which fund is used? Not so easy now, is it?
If it was so easy, someone on Council or in the Finance office could have given the answer to Term at the last Council meeting. Instead he got about 20 seconds of silence.
Maybe no one in the City knows the answer?
TO POST 1:34 time for a public meeting, so we can understand our OUTRAGIOUS UTILITY BILLS, ON ELECTRIC IN THE CITY. we already know we are being OVERCHARGED, on our water and sewer in the city. This was explained by a person at the P.O.C.meeting, Tuesday night. I am glad, I attended.
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