"WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE" guns & roses
Remember a while back when I brought up the fence in front of Your Vine or Mine? My interest in the fence was less about the fence but what procedures were used to grant the variance of the fence. At that time neither the city Planning Board, Board of Zoning Appeals or even City Council had reviewed or voted on granting this variance. My question why have all these government entities if by an unelected official could grant a request without even consulting anybody?
Well consider this;
539.02 NOISE DISTURBANCES PROHIBITED.
In addition to the specific prohibitions outlined in this chapter, no person shall unreasonably make, continue to cause to be made, continued or permitted, any noise disturbance. This section shall not apply to noncommercial public speaking and public assembly activities conducted on any public space or public right of way.
(ord.9-82 Passed 4-19-82.)
(e) EXPLOSIVES, FIREARMS AND SIMILAR DEVICES.
The using or firing of explosives, firearms, or similar devices which create impulsive sound so as to cause a noise disturbance across a residential real property boundary or on a public space or right of way, without first obtaining a special variance.
So the next question to ask is who or how this variance is granted in the City of Painesville.
(a) The
Safety Director or his designated representative shall have the authority,
consistent with this section, to grant special variances.
(b) Any
person seeking a special variance pursuant to this section shall file an
application with the Safety Director, or his designated representative. The
application shall contain information which demonstrates that bringing the
source of sound or activity for which the special variance is sought into
compliance with this chapter would constitute an unreasonable hardship on the
applicant, on the community or on other persons. Notice of an application for a
special variance shall be given by the Safety Director or his representative to
persons who frequent the area of the sound or activity and who may be adversely
affected by the granting of the variance. Any individual who claims to be
adversely affected by allowance of the special variance may file a statement
with the Director or his representative containing any information to support
his claim.
(d) Application
for extension of time limits specified in special variances or for modification
of other substantial conditions shall be treated like applications for initial
special variances.
(e) The
Safety Director or his designated representative may issued guidelines approved
by Council defining the procedures to be followed in applying for a special
variance and the criteria to be considered in deciding whether to grant a
special variance.
(f) Enforcement
of this chapter shall be stayed as to any person filing an application for a
special variance pursuant to this section, until such time as the application
is acted upon by the Safety Director or his designated representative.
(Ord. 9-82.Passed
4-19-82.)
Now when it comes to Atwell's Gun Range I would like to see the special variance along with an explanation why this variance is handled differently than others. Again I can find no resident in the area around in the last thirty years ever receiving a letter from the city. Were there any stipulation to the granting of this variance?
To Councilman DeLeone do you now understand why this has little to do with sound decibels?
posted by terminator1 @ 6:39 PM
36 Comments
36 Comments:
Typical Painesville resident, try to harass a business until they say screw it and move out of town.
A copy of any variance requests should be available from City Hall. These are a matter of public record.
I would suspect that, just like with Your Vine or Mine, there is no such record because no one would be willing to put their name on it for approval, without public input. The City just glossed over that one when called out on it.
Mr Deleone needs to learn that residents/people elect him, not a business within his ward.
The range may have been there before the ordinance and may be grandfathered.
Atwells provides a service to its range customers and police/fire departments all over the area. The Atwells are well known and well liked.
Term, are you anti-gun? Is that what really motivates your compliant? Just wondering. Do you live close enough to that range to hear it?
Those trains going by Atwells property are terribly noisy and they shake my house. I’m not moving
People STILL live by airports and say "they get used to the noise."
I can hear the gunshots at my house. I'm used to it. Don't care. I could move but I won't because of that. There are far worse businesses in the area. Why is there a HEADSHOP across the tracks from Atwells? Because it’s legal!
This ordence was pass in 1982 attwells was operating long before the law was passed . They would fall into a grandfather business. . I do not think this applies to the range as they already had a permit for that range"
4:38 So I guess it's O.K. for the business to harass the residents?
5:50/7:58 Look your the second person that asked if I was anti-gun. Hardly the case my problem is the noise that is coming from the gun range.
This plus the fact it seems some in this town can bypass BZA and even council. Why do some have to pay a fee and appear in front of boards and council yet others can just go to the administration?
Again Atwell's can double the even triple the size of his gun range good for them I just don't believe people should be subjected to the noise all the time.?
5:50 how close do you live? It's hard to get used to something when your trying to carry on a simple conversation on a porch.
I hope your not suggesting Atwell's gets special favors from the city?
The Head Shop call Your councilman, ask him about the noise as well as the gambling machines or will you get used to those too?
The ordinance, begs the question; did Atwell's receive a variance with any stipulations? Was there ever a public hearing? and what is the decibel level when taken and by who?
Does the city administration not see a problem for resident's or even that councilman Deleone believes resident's should have to put up with this constant noise? If Atwell were truly good neighbors they should solve this problem on there own. They don't want to hear. The salesroom is soundproofed.
Great news! I can skip the zoning board and just let the safety director approve me building a shed. Who is Painesville's safety director anyway?
I'll shoot a gun off in it once a week.
The range closes at 8 every night anyway. It is no different than someone cutting their grass or using a chainsaw.
45:22 There is no special variance to operate a lawnmower is there?
11:55 Try it but call the shed a gun range.
11:50 I don't know what the councilman's thinking is on this subject. Maybe he could answer what the neighbors are expected to listen too?
4:38 So I guess it's O.K. for the business to harass the residents?I'd hardly say this business is in the business of harassing the residents. Seems you are the only one in the neighborhood that has a problem. If not, why don't you circulate a petition? Go all around the neighborhood and see who has the real problem. No, probably not, just like running for council. Tis better to just keep complaining than do something real about the situation.
Yet another that we English speaking American citizens can not apply for. This is just not right. Hope John Boehner lawsuit VS Obama does some good for this countries sake.
ELD Paraprofessional – Maple Elementary School
6.75 hrs./day
5 days/week
Spanish Required
Please refer to File #504 for Qualifications
All Candidates: Please send letter of interest to Jim Haffa at: james.haffa@pcls.net
The Safety Director is the City Manager, the Utility Director is the City Manager. The Chiefs report directly to the CM, not as CM, but through chain of command.
10:43 circulating a petition? All we got for that the last time were two studies? Still got the water in the basements. Why can't the city just answer the questions? they were sent to all of them. Where is a response from at least our councilman? Most resident don't want to respond due to fear of retaliation from the city. What a great place.
11:04 Your dreaming the board can make that requirement no matter who's President. Me, I'm getting ready for watching the impeachment for someone doing something because others don't do anything.
The NH article today on the new police chief was forwarded to me with the only advice, read the NH link to www.policeone.com and Mr. Powalie's comments.
"some agencies have adopted a skewed customer service mentality in which the 'customer' always comes first"
"Leaders understand that while we provide a service, some issues are not to be handled by police, there are other agencies to handle them". April, 2013
Training, "you, your agency, and your citizens deserve it". One can only infer the meaning behind the prioritization.
Decision made, so be it.
12:01 I'll bite. What do you see the meaning of this?
A few thoughts:
Unfortunately for the residents of the city, they still do have to fear retaliation from this entire city for speaking out. Anyone who spoke out against former City Manager, Rita McMahon, or former Councilman, Hada, etc., are still being retaliated against, so nothing has changed at all in this city. And if you are on "the list," you can expect to be disrespected by the police dept., the workers in the electric dept., the new City Manager, etc. So as I said, nothing has changed, and McMahon, Hada, Delamotte, and Horvath might as well still be in charge. It's a shame the new city manager is no better than the last, but it's sadly the truth.
As far as legalizing the illegals, Bush and the Republicans would have done it already if not for the American citizens who stood up against it.
Term 8:28 - If the councilman you are waiting for is Flock, forget it. He is useless. Nobody speaks out against him any more on this blog because you annihilate them and blame it on one person, although it is many who are unhappy with him. Last time I spoke out against him on this blog, you blamed it on someone else, and when I told you about it, you deleted my post. So I guess you got what you wanted and shut everyone up as it concerns your buddy, Flock.
Anyone who is unhappy about our town being run over by illegals can thank especially Hada, Delamotte and McMahon. And if you don't like what the Democrats and Obama are doing, you'd better start speaking out right now. Soon the Hispanics/Latinos will have enough people in office in this country and in this city to not only legalize them all, but to also open the borders and make the U.S. part of Mexico. And Americans all over this country are being denied jobs now because they do not speak Spanish.
As far as Term running for office, nobody wants him to, except for an occasional taunt, thank goodness.
1:05 You can complain about Flock all you want on this blog. Now if your going to make accusation's about any council person you better show proof. I have deleted comments on many council people because the story told can't be backed up. Also thanks for your faith in me.
I also mentioned a year ago that our new city manager will get a year to prove himself. July is upcoming. Believe me he is more approachable than the former CM. That said I haven't figured him out. He has monthly meeting for resident's, He doesn't try to control the council meetings and presently I have no idea if he's glad he's here or wonders what was I thinking coming here.
Retaliation? I think that's over but that some city employee's still views anyone who disagrees as the enemy. Why I don't know?
I do agree the tentacle's of McMahon, Hada run deep. How many on council owe there position to them?
Another glorious Saturday morning marred by the noise from a barrage of gunfire, thanks to Atwell`s! Guess I will shut my windows and turn on the a/c. Interestingly, you can`t hear the gunfire from inside Atwell`s store! I guess it`s too annoying for them, but the neighbors be damned! I am SICK of it!
It's not like your councilman or for that matter any one on council gives a damn!
For that you have to wonder why?
Funny this city will go to Congress over trains, but not for noise?
Maybe the title of this post should have been Guns and Fences?
Term shouldn't be surprised. What does he expect from a high school student body?
1:05pm you have things a little skewed in your mind. The Republicans as a whole are fighting amnesty. Its the Dems who are pushing for that hoping that they will all vote Democrat. One Democrat just introduced legislation that would allow illegals to vote. This is horrifying. Don't blame the Republicans for this.
Police Chief appointment, this is small town policing, customer service is barking dogs, 10 cars on a lawn apron, not a SWAT team. Schools, parents have been failing, so who do parents call? The police to intervene in family issues, a reality of life and the dept. needs to be trained on these issues, bank robberies are at a long time low, domestic violence at all time high. So as to the issue of training, no, not important first to the officer, then the agency and finally, the community. So, to answer your question, community needs first.
I am not sure the new chief appreciates these concepts. Education is important and a HS diploma and 7 years as a jailor does not really seem appropriate qualifications for a police chief to lead an agency in this day and age.
Just an observation.
5:34 If education was the answer this town would be running like a Swiss watch. The question is can the chief relate to the residents as well as the people under his command.
Example the two people who pushed the AMP-OHIO -streetscape- hotel deals were very well educated. We presently have a councilman who doesn't know the difference between decibels and a nuisance? Where did that get us. I do see and understand your point let's give him a fair chance to prove himself.
The gunfire noise from Atwells escapes through the roof vent. That's why you don't hear it inside. The roof vent needs a really effective muffler?
If you like that petition idea, buy some clipboards and start walking. Just be sure to have two columns on it. One for the range and one against the range. Then you will know how the neighborhood as a whole feels about the issue.
8:53 The petition is a good idea. But if you want a petition FOR the gun range I suggest YOU buy some clipboards and start walking. Or some residents could just file a lawsuit? (something to be avoided)
It would be interesting for resident in that area to share with us all the positives the gun range brings to us? Maybe I'm missing something.
I was a bit concerned after reading about the new police chief. His comment was disturbing to me. "He said the department is in place to protect everyone." Everyone? How can he protect everyone and still uphold the law too? Does this mean he'll be protecting the illegals and not doing his job to deport them?
For him to also say the Hispanic community is very open to talking to the police is contrary to what I have heard from them. When the entire basement of a church is full, I don't think they are very receptive to the safety forces.
7:51 If you remember I brought up the Hispanic population when the former chief announced his retirement. Wonder why the new chief did?
What to watch for is the number of times the U.S. Border Patrol is called to Painesville this coming year as compared to the last couple of years. Being fair is fair but no one gets a free pass. No matter who is appointed police chief.
3:02, this is 1:05. You need to go back and research history a little, and also reread my post. Bush and the Republicans were going to legalize the illegals. The only reason they did not is because millions of Americans stood up and protested.
In my post, I am not currently blaming the Republicans, as I did say it was the Democrats. But look again; Republicans are afraid of losing and/or not gaining the Latino votes, so most of them are willing to give away our country again now, too. There have been two amnesties already. I'd have to look up who did the first one, but Regan (Republican) did the second one. And that is first and foremost what started the whole mess and what brings us here today. If Americans don't want Obama to finish us off, then everyone is going to have to take responsibility to stop it.
It is a frightening situation, but the only thing that is going to stop the Republicans and the Democrats from giving away our country is the American people, and they are now mostly silent.
That is what Im asking - is he going to protect the illegals? Rightfully he should not as they are breaking the law. I'd get a ticket for running a light but why do they get a free pass?
Watch and Learn.
3:39 Wasn't Clinton another one involved in amnesty? Your last paragraph states both parties are giving our country away and Americans are silent. Most politicians have no morales, values or ethics and would probably sell their own family to stay in office. They are only in it for themselves. Look at how the President overides decisions and abuses the Constitution. As for us speaking out, how? How does anyone do this without being called a racist? And I have been called this and a hater for taking a stand against the illegals. This is not the way it should be in a country that you are supposed to have freedom of speech.
Why doesn't this city have a safety director? I know the cm is one in the same but at least seperately there would not be a conflict of interest then.
Good Choise. It is not the job of the local police to deport anyone. That is the job of the Feds if they Donot do their job the local cops can do nothing. It has been said on this blog many times. Call the Feds and tell them to do their job. And yes it is the job of police to serve and protect everyone regardless of that persons status.
8:07, and my kid gets a citation for curfew violation on our own street, and yet these illegal kids are running all over the city all hours of the night and nothing is done. I've called to report them and the police usually don't even respond. When they do all they do is talk and leave. This is not right. They break our laws to get here and then are allowed to keep breaking our laws every single day. And I'm so sick of their freaking music.
To 5:35, this is 3:39.
I don't recall about Clinton at the moment; I'd have to look it up, but he's a Democrat, so chances are good...
Also, one sentence I left out was that even though most Republicans are willing to give away our country for votes again, too, if it wasn't for them at the moment, the illegals would already be legalized. Whatever threads are still saving us are for sure being held onto by the Republicans. We have to all let them know we agree with what they are doing, as we let the Democrats know we won't tolerate what they are doing.
One of the main ways that the Hispanics have shut us up is to call us prejudiced. I've even heard government officials call the populous that to shut us up. You can't let it bother you; this is our country, and we have the right to save it from this invasion. Americans have been so politically correct that we are letting our government give away our country. Just speak up and join the fight...it's not our fault they decided to invade our country. And you can be sure they know that that is what they are doing, and they are doing it on purpose. And winning.
6:50 Perhaps you could video them and then the police response. Take it to council and play it for all to see. I'm so sick and tired of the double standard and political correctness with the illegal vs. Americans. It's time for a change in this town.
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