"COUNCIL MEETING 07/18/11
Well, due to the summer session, council has only one scheduled meeting in July and one in August.
This meeting will have no departmental reports but will be centered on three areas in the city that the city would like to put in zoning compliance. The property behind Atwell's is of the most concern to Chestnut St. rezoning. Many fear this is the keystone to a large housing development bounded by Chestnut, Cedarbrook and Hickory Dr. No one can be against development of this property, but at the same time, homes in this area already flood after a hard rain. Truthfulness by the administration would probably be welcome. This problem must be resolved before anyone builds anything.
In new business, Councilman Fodor is offering "Next step in the search for energy". Maybe if we had done this in 2007 we would be 2 million dollars richer.
Also, Councilman Fodor is inquiring about a Road Improvement Levy.
Councilwoman DiNallo will propose a "Council Appointed Utilities Commission."
Enjoy another warm week.
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Quick note on the council meeting. All zoning were put on third reading. Most comments came from the Chestnut Cedarbrook area. Most question concerned the 3 acres behind Atwell's. Wonder why Goldberg Builders weren't present? Change all the property to R-1 that currently have addresses but the city should not be in the business of changing zoning for people. Let them apply like everyone else.
Painesville is presently looking for another company to help us with our electic energy needs seems AMP-OHIO has left a sour taste in every ones mouth.
This went to Mr. Fodors question about energy and Mrs. DiNallo question about an energy committee. Ms. McMahon said she was gathering information for council.
Mr. Fodor brought up the need for Painesville to maybe do the "L" word, meaning a proposed levy. Mr. Flock said lets bring up the "C" word, meaning cuts. Joe Hada attempted to make it sound like the cuts Flock mentioned would come on the backs of the safety forces, that was not what Mr. Flock said. Mr. Torre thought it was a bad idea, I mentioned that there was a better chance of it snowing tomorrow yhem a levy passing. Mr. Tibitts then brought out some interesting facts. Not counting utility directors, Painesville spends close to $950,000 on managers and directors. Seems like Painesville has become a place with to many chiefs and not enough Indians?
posted by terminator1 @ 5:37 PM
105 Comments
105 Comments:
Have there been any followup meetings to the flooding in Cedarbrook?
Attended the first, yet haven't been invited to another.
Was this serious business or just a first time blip?
Glad you asked Follow up presentation Tuesday July 19,2011 tommorrow at 6:00pm Chestnut St.
Elementary School.
I would like to know how people are informed of the meeting aside from word of mouth. Maybe I missed it in the paper this time but for the last meeting I was not invited, my neighbors on both sides were and that was how I knew of the last one.
Then tomorrow, no prior notice?
I was slighted by someone.
Maybe this could be Painesville's next investment.
http://www.ksbw.com/r/28586219/detail.html
At least it's green technology. Should make some happy.
4:48 sorry,I could have mentioned it more. It was posted on Channel 12.
8:44 Painesville presently is also looking into a replacement for AMP-OHIO that was stated at last nights meeting.
Please watch the council meeting, Tell me did Hal do off the reservation again? Calling the police because of a cat?
Yes he did call about a cat he has done it before and has called on people sitting outside their residences curious how the city allowed a fence put up on another persons property by councilman Werner without the owners permission and refuses to recognize it as a fence because Joe gurley said it isn't a fence if you look up the definition if a fence online it is exactly that a fence not a traffic control device that both he and Hal Werner say it is maybe they should just rewrite the entire websites dictionary
Hal seems to be to be way to concerned with Jackie's Place. Why isn't he concerned about the empty store that's falling down across the street?
Reading the last part of this post, I have to wonder if these are public employees? Someone wants to raise taxes? No one wants to pass a school levy because they can't afford higher taxes. Public employees again? Who wants only their pay check protected and at the taxpayers expense?
I read an article in USA Today that said some federal workers are more likely to die of natural causes than get laid off or fired.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-07-18-fderal-job-security_n.htm?loc=interstitialskip
So, if so many here in Painesville are against more taxes,another school levy and paychecks to big for our city and school systems, why do so many want to repeal SB 5. Doesn't it help control these expenses?
Sounds a little counter productive to me. We need to get our budgets under control at all levels and for all employees.
Council-President Hada mentioned that about 70% of general fund dollars go to wages. The only opposition to S.B.5 I seem to have when it takes collective bargining rights from Police and Fire. The average city worker makes a fair wage there's seem to be way to many in upper management.[To many high priced chiefs not enough indians] I always laugh when a city offical tells me someone retired or quit and they didn't replace them. In the back of my mind I think maybe you didn't need them in the first place? When you pay an electrical bill at city hall do we really need three clerks? Could we look into maybe privatizing the cemeteries? Presently many council members show more concern for city employees [over 70% that don't live here} then the 100% of residents that do.
Glad someone mentioned Channel 12. There is a huge problem in that many Painesville residents do not get Channel 12. If you have ATT U-verse, which many residents do, then you don't get the Painesville channel.
Communicating to their residents through the use of channel 12 is not acceptable when so many residents do not have access to that channel.
4:25 You have any other ideas how to inform residents? I'm open to any and all suggestions.
My problem with the public workers is this. Who protects my job? Who gives me tenure? Who gives me job security? Who gives me a raise that is not based on merit? Who protested when Social Security and Medicare rates go up for me? Who went to Columbus or Washington to protest when they increased my retirement age? Who protested when they stopped the cost of living raises. I pay into system for over 50 years and now they want to change the rules for me but just don't change theirs.
I don't think I saw one public employee fight for my rights or benefits. Why should I be forced to do with less and pay more in taxes for them? Time everyone learned to live with less of my tax money at any level.
Sorry, no more benefits on my tax dollar if you want to take away my benefits.
You make some very valid points.
Seems most public employees don't see it your way. Wonder if their retirements were raided to pay for wars and an I.O.U. left how would they would feel? None of the problems in the budget presently were caused by Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. The Repubulican party has tryed to destroy Social Security since the 40's. If the schools or other government bodies don't have the funds, I guess a cut is on the way?
You cannot balance the countries budget on the backs of the poor and the old. Where is the shared sacrifice? Please we have a spending problem and a revenue problem. There's no simple way out of this.
Contrary to what those in power would like you to believe so that you'll give up your pension, cut your wages, and settle for the life your great-grandparents had, America is not broke. Not by a long shot. The country is awash in wealth and cash. It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
Today just 400 Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans combined.
Let me say that again. 400 obscenely rich people, most of whom benefited in some way from the multi-trillion dollar taxpayer "bailout" of 2008, now have more loot, stock and property than the assets of 155 million Americans combined. If you can't bring yourself to call that a financial coup d'état, then you are simply not being honest about what you know in your heart to be true.
the property in question, we used to ride our bikes through there. It was a haven for fun and good times during the summer. Used to build dirt jumps etc through the willows and also hang out there until the pretty girls from that 'high class' cedarbrook neighborhood would come out and walk around. summers back then were great!! I do remember though there was a large pond, what I now know is called a run off pond. It would seem that knowing the track record of the engineering either in the city or the consultants they hire, that double and triple checking the results should be done prior to any re zoning or move to develop that property. I understand city management is trying to put new construction into Painesville to not only get more users of its municipal utilities (that are so great!) but also probably to get that median housing price up within the city to attract big box retail...
but again, if that is the mission..
why is painesville such a great follower? Why not be innovative with the economic development. Is the current plan for economic development even being discussed? What is it the plan?
Sounds like if this property behind atwells gets developed it will bring more (the odds aren't in the city's favor) Pain to the ville. I would question anything that McMahon says. Her record is below mediocre on her best day.
My sympathies to the Dinallo Family in this sad time.
No, the public employees don't see it that way. Both parties are to blame for raiding Social Security though.
We have a big spending problem with entitlements and bailouts but more jobs will help solve the revenue problem.
Unions and collective bargaining have done some good things but also some very bad things to our employment situation.
TERM, and our current Democrat president isn't trying to destroy Social Security? Please for once hold your bias in check.
All I know we have had the Bush tax cuts for almost 10 years, where are these promised jobs?
Poor and old people have very little clout. but the top 400 riches people they own K street.
The Rupublicans have no real plans one candidate suggests removing minium wages? Yet no one calls her out. Where are these promised JOBS?
Did any one notice no Rally Team both at Party in the Park this year? Maybe because Kasich is governor and Young is now our representative? Those must be the good guys when it comes to illegals? Where is the complaining now?
Funny thing about the spending limit. Sorry, sad thing. Just 5 years ago when the same thing vote came up it was the Democrats who voted in mass against raising the limit. Why OK then and not now? Nothing wrong with placing blame but it still remains the fault of both parties.
ECON 101:
I don't advocate getting rid of minimum wage jobs but the last increase really did hurt the employment situation. Most employers are small and were forced to make do with less people and/or less hours per person when minimum wage was raised. Not only do they have to pay the increased hourly rate but match the employees's deductions for Social Security (6.2% up to $97,500.00) and Medicare
(1.45% on all wages, no cap). So when wages go up, the cost of doing business goes up as well.
This hurts the smaller businesses and minimum wage employees the most....and it just happens to be the ones that can least afford it.
Talk is cheap. So is complaining. Getting results takes effort. How many actually put in any effort to help bring about any results they may want.
REW the same time we don't establish a living working wage. we expect at the same time expect those people to get to work buy gas, car insurance, health insurance. childcare and since the pay isn't high enough these people remain a cost to the government. Government is footing the bill for cheap labor.
Ever wonder what labor costs would be if all illegals couldn't be employed? That's why there here to keep labor costs down. Which party want's to keep labor cheap?
Ohio's Sunshine Laws - Ohio Attorney General's Office -
You can make a request to city hall to be notified in advance of ALL meetings if you have no access to their cable channel. You might also call the News Herald and ask if they were notified - might be interesting.
A “special meeting” is any meeting other than a regular meeting.810 A public body must establish,
by rule, a reasonable method that allows the public to determine the time, place, and purpose of
special meetings.811
Public bodies must provide at least 24 hours advance notification of special meetings
to all media outlets that have requested such notification.812
When a special meeting is held to discuss particular issues, the statement of the
meeting’s purpose must specifically indicate those issues, and only those issues may
be discussed at that meeting.813 When a special meeting is simply a rescheduled
“regular” meeting occurring at a different time, the stated purpose may be noticed to
the public as “general purposes.”814 Discussing matters not disclosed in the purpose
statement of a special meeting, either in open session or executive session of the
special meeting is a violation of the Open Meetings Act.815
Rally Team has gone underground.
8:18 I can't agree with your thoughts actions speak louder then words. I have to remember that.
Has anyone seen Beavers around the Chestnut St. area. The city claims we have them they have moved out of the Goldberg Pond and have moved west behind Brentwood. They might be the cause of water blockage? I guess it's possible I just have never seen them there or signs like trees being cut in the the way Beavers do? Please we will have a bunch of comments about Riverside Beavers.
10:38, the rally team is farm from going underground. There are very few people fighting many immigration battles. Time was better spent elsewhere. And I won't get dragged down into your childish banter against the rally team. This is my last comment. I don't need this site to stay informed. I am fully informed on city activities via other means. I only check this site out for amusement once in a while and when it ceases to amuse me I leave. I am not amused by your childishness. Goodbye.
TERM-In reference to whether I have any ideas as to how to get information out to the public...YES I do, the city needs to get channel 12 on ATT U-verse. There are at least 13 other cities from Westlake to Mentor to Concord to Mayfield that ARE on ATT. I can watch any of those cities council meetings, but not my own, because they won't link up.
See you guys got the rally team upset with me again.
6:21 I will look into this but my guess is were lucky we got what the have.
HOLA's mad the Rally people are mad?
The rally teams getting all their information from FOXNEWS and NEWS CORP how's that working out?
Seems HOLA is more welcome than the Rally group. I guess we get what we get.
Can't agree about actions? Then why go to council meetings or start the POC? You could just do your talking and complaining here. For that matter, why even make an effort to vote. I guess some here think it is better to complain here and then criticize those who get off their butts and take an active part in the issues. So what part of this don't you agree with? Is it just that someone might have a different opinion or idea than you?
You have HOLA taking control of your city and who is to blame? You get what you deserve, but I don't deserve this and my city is going down too. I want HOLA out of here. Come on. Forget your beef with the rally team. Let's just all band together and take our city back. Think of all the money this will save. How can we go about it? I'm not an organizer but I'm sure willing to jump in and help. Can anyone take the initiative and organize this?
6:55pm, what a juvenile and ignorant comment. One has nothing to do with the other. You are just a liberal who has a fear of Fox News and can't stand any information other than your own to get out.
What next Sean Hanitty will complain? To a poster I will not put someones phone number on the blog. without you telling me who you are and who they are. Fair enough?
TERM, I have no idea what the phone number comment is about, but you do have to be careful of posting phone numbers. There could be some liability involved. Probably should stay away from that unless someone authorizes their number to be used.
Am I missing something here? What is all the talk of HOLA? Is something going on that I don't know about? What's up?
I think it might have something to do with the Latino Festival presently being held at Lake County Fairgrounds? They were loud last nite.
Wonder if the Rally Team setup a booth there?
1:13 I am in agreement with you.
Term, did you and the POC members attend? You could have gained a few members. As long as you have Hispanics and Democrats, that makes you politically correct.
Term 5:06: I think everybody better quit relying on the Rally Team to do all the fighting for everybody. If people don't like what is happening here, then they better get off their duffs and do something about it themselves. Even the number of people who showed up at the rallies was paltry at best. Everyone keeps looking at them and blaming them. It's not their job -- it's just a crusade they took up on their own. People better join in, start their own fight, or shut-up.
Here is something our city needs: Secure Communities. It is the Homeland Security Department's system of identifying immigrants for deportation through fingerprints taken by local officers when booking people on criminal charges. The locals send the prints to the FBI for criminal background checks. The FBI shares the fingerprints with Homeland Security to look for potentially deportable immigrants, who can be in the country legally or illegally. If they have committed a crime here, they are gone.
Yea, I would like to know what Terms new pac is doing about immigration. Since you think the rallyteam isn't working. Let's hear your solution. Since it looks like you will never work with this group then maybe it's time you put up or shut up. In the mean time, we still have the problem. People live with the noise and the cars and the rest. We pay extra to educate them while we get cuts in bussing and gifted program. So, has any member of Term's pac ever tried to attend a meeting. Ever tried to work together. Looks like HOLA is the big beneficiary from Term's dislike of this group.
To the rest of the members of the pac, do you share Term's opinion of the rallyteam? Are any of you willing to work together? Nice to see your answer here so everyone can see where you stand on this issue.
FYI, that loud latino festival runs from the 21st through the 24th.
5:15 No I didn't but by the noise I felt I was there. Please explain yourself on the second part of your comment.
5:06 Your right about one thing quit relying on the Rally Team this festival could be seen as a slap in their face? Seems that's the area most members live in? Talk to our Governor he seems to presently hold school purse strings.
6:43 Again it's not TERM's group. Attend next Tuesdays meeting at Morley Library state your case.
On a final note it would be interesting to know where the Painesville, and Concord Township trustees views were on this subject?
You can't blame this festival on the city.
My point exactly. How many meeting with commisioners, twp trustees, elected county, state and federal officials have you or the PAC attended? Well, I sent an email doesn't quite cut it. They get hundreds or thousands daily. Have you ever attended one of their meet ins, gone with them to Columbus or Washington. Does Hada and Rita listen to you on this subject?
TERM, explain your comment. Why is this latino festival a slap in the rally team's face. It has nothing to do with them. It seems it would be more a slap in Painesville's face as a whole.
10:10 Are you making your point or mine? It's simple no matter who or what party sits in power "The fix is in" THEY ARE HERE AND CAN STAY! your right they government doesn't listen to the Rally Team they don't listen to me, they don't listen to anyone.
So why do we go through the motions?
The Rally Team is the only organization presently trying to put illegal immigration's feet to the fire? Now how many illegals do you think are attending that festival? After how long we now know that the Rally Team is a Tiger with no claws. What politician stands with you?
Woodchucks maybe, sorry no Beavers. Did everyone keep a straight face?
Term, this is 6:36. Let me repeat myself. If you don't like what is happening here, or what the Rally Team is doing, then get off your own duff and fight. Either join the Rally Team, fight on your own, or shut-up.
And what about Hal Werner. When he ran for councilman, he said he wanted to get rid of the illegals and get rid of McMahon. As SOON as he was elected, he started singing McMahon's praises, and what has he done about the illegals? Has anyone even heard him mention them in years? And what about everyone else in the council? A little clue: your city is being overrun by illegals. What are you going to do about it?
Tiger with no claws because it remains the same few people. How many who complain about them are willing to join them in their fight. Term, you have made it clear you won't but what about the rest of you. This POC needs to decide if this is a fight they are willing to join. POC could contact their elected officials too. Personal(group) meetings, then phone calls followed by letter writing campaign. Email is next to useless.Term, have you picketed any businesses yet. One of you major complaints.There is power in numbers. While you keep fighting the rally group, things only get worse. What's more important, fighting the rally team or fighting illegal immigration?
For those of us that don't or can't attend POC meetings, it would be nice to hear their position on the rally group vs immigration. I for one am listening to those running for council on their position before they get my vote. Would like to hear from members of POC before I listen to what that group has to say.
Since almost all of us can't attend commissioners meetings, state government hearings in Columbus, or hearings in DC, we must get our info from their minutes on how they stand or vote. Would like to see minutes from the POC posted too. Otherwise it will still remain Term's pac. He's the only one doing any talking. The news he posts here is one thing, but his opinion is something else all together. Definitely partisan but that's his right. POC, let's here what you have to say. Can't be non-partisan if only one person does the talking.
Term 12:11: You can go on the Grassroots Rally Team.org website and see that one politician stands with them. The fact that only one stands with them is an indictment on the politicians, not the rally team. And you have a lot of nerve. You have done nothing but bad-mouth them and their efforts while not helping them at all, then have the nerve to sit back and do more bad-mouthing and criticizing. It really wipes out any respect I might have had for you.
12:58/2:21 The last time I looked being an American gave me freedom of speach, I'm not an illegal you can deport or shut-up. 2:21 wipe out what you wish just the idea that your name isn't included in your post may be the reason I have zero respect for you and your group. Call your friends in Columbus? All I hear is silence from this so-called great majority. Why? I guess I'm taking the same response they have. Angelo Cimaglio
Term 3:57: Everyone who fights with the Rally Team and their faces, show up at the rallies. Nothing hidden. Some of their faces and names have been in the newspapers and on websites. Go to their website. You will see the faces of the leaders right there.
Again, I have no respect for you. You sit and badmouth them for no good reason, and I do not see you fighting on your own. You would rather cut them down because you are jealous that they did not ask you to head it, than to fight the cause. It's really very immature and asinine. Your arguments don't hold up. Your jealousy and immaturity does. You are using the same arguments you used right from the very beginning when the group was forming, and they just don't hold up.
THE ILLEGALS ARE OUT OF CONTROL......
Wonder if Saint Marys will get that 53 year old illegal off on the rape and kidnapping charges.
Wonder if the illegal mother of 7 kids got out of the traffic charge and not deported.
Got to love Painesville
Here I always thought Courtney was a girls name? Lame website and the groups they tie in with, also lame.
I can understand why self respecting people might not want to sit down with this group.
This is nothing but a bunch of republicans wanting to stir the pot. Well team your teams in power where's the results?
Gawd, I live way over in the North End and I can hear that stupid festival from here. Why are these people allowed to ruin the quality of life for everyone else? Party in the Park wasn't that loud. I could hear it, but barely.
I can understand why people learn to hate, I really do. I used to be liberal and tolerant and now I wish every single Mexican would just pack his or her shit and leave.
Term, the dumbest this you could do is help this bunch. How many are really from the city? They are to timid to us their own names when they insult you. That about says it all.
I didn't hear about the 53 year old. What is the story there?
Yes, and when these people ARE finally deported, they leave their children behind and then blame it on America because their families are separated. First they blame it on us when they come here illegally and they leave their families behind. They say we are responsible for separating their families. Then when they are finally deported, they leave the kids here and blame that on us, too. Unbelievable.
I always thought that illegal immigration is a nationwide problem. Exactly what difference does it make who takes up the fight or where they live. Seems that's the problem.
7:04 So you would rather make it a Republican vs Democrat fight. No wonder we can't get anything done. Even Term knows it is made up of members of both parties. Until we direct all our resources to the right battle, I will repeat, HOLA is the big winner. By the way, exactly where is this latino festival being held at???? Not in the city.
So, ask yourself, who are you really fighting Republicans or illegal immigrants. From where I stand, I believe Term is against Republicans first, Rally Team second and then illegal immigrants. And in that order on this issue. He has his right to his opinion. Now, it would be nice to see minutes of meetings and a web site stating a mission statement and a calendar of events for the POC. Until then, it is just an extension of Term's political agenda, since he seems to be the only spokesperson at present.
People talk about the rally group not wanting to put a face to on it's members. Well, I for one, could only recognize two members of the POC since I am unable to attend their meetings same as I can't attend council meetings because I am at work. I too don't get channel 12.
Everybody says politicians can't work together and solve problems. Well, neither can voters. No one says you must belong to one group or the other. Just get involved and help fight the real battle instead of all this petty bickering.
tHE 53 YEAR OLD WAS IN THE NEWS HERALD LAST WEEK
We could talk about 7:06 for a minute, too. You ask how many that are fighting the illegals in this city are from this city???!!! Even if you forget about the fact that it is a NATIONAL problem and people are trying to save our COUNTRY, you would at least have to recognize that it is an OHIO problem and people from all over OHIO that are coming to fight should be welcomed with open arms. It's a problem that is spreading like a disease, and it will soon be spreading to a city near them, if it hasn't already. NATIONAL, oh bright one, NATIONAL. And who in their right minds would have a cause -- any cause -- and be mad that people from other areas have come to help? If anyone wonders how these illegals have gotten away with it for so long that they are, indeed, in a position to take over our country, they can look to people like Term, 7:04 and 7:06. Hope you REALLY like tacos, loud music, peeing in public and all the other mayhem that we see in Mexico. They have wrecked THEIR country, so they need to take over ours, and you are just letting them. I say the same thing I say to Term. Either help or get out of the way. I personally have had enough of our politicians giving away our country. It's almost gone now. If we are going to save her, we are going to have to save her NOW.
1:25PM You have crossed the line. I have never sent an e-mail to the Rally Team that ANYONE could consider horrible. I asked who were the members of the group, if there was an affiation with the John Birch Society because there pamplets were handed out at one of your demonstrations. I did leave the comment I had no urge to play "Batman and Robin" hid and seek that at the time the rally team seemed to be playing.
I prestently or in the past never wanted to run or even be apart of your group. I notice all members seem to be over the age of 50 and no movement can be successful without youg people. I will be more then glad to reprint the "Horrible" emails I have sent you. It would be interesting for you to prove your point, send them please!
Again I will not shut-up, All I know is your group has been very unsuccessful. That beg's the question WHY?
POC meeting Tuesday at Morley Library 6:00PM all people and ideas are welcome. Again I am not a spoksman for the group, along with doing what I believe is the right thing. I always thought Courtney was a girls name too. What's the big deal?
Term 4:41: The reason the Rally Team and the rest of the groups in America fighting the illegals have been unsuccessful in getting the illegals out are because of people like you, 7:04 and 7:06.
And just by the tidbits that you have revealed that you communicated in emails to the Rally Team, we can tell that nobody in their right minds would want to waste their time on you and your nonsense. This is the crap you were doing instead of fighting for the survival of your country with the people who were spearheading it in this area? You and your friend's emails WERE blocked by the Rally Team, were they not?
How do we know the POC does not have an affiliation with the John Birch Society? Because Term says so? He basically accused the rally group. Has he retracted his statement or question? Doubt it. Would rather leave the gossip alive and well. I seem to have read that Term has the right to free speech. So if a member of the JBS shows up at your, everyone is welcome meeting, then your group is a member too. Are you going to drag them out?? Just curious as to who you think has a right to free speech.
Joe Friday used to say "Just the facts mam." I don't ever recall him saying
'do you have any rumors or gossip I can spread. Or can you make up some kind of connection between events to make someone look bad."
Another way to look at it is if you ask someone if they stopped beating their wife. No means you still do and yes means you use to.
A clever way to make someone look bad but a clever person can see right through this. If this is what we can expect from the POC then what good can come from it.
Want to prove me wrong, then find a better place to get your word out. Get a web site. Get a mission statement. Post minutes. List events or issues people can get involved in. Until then, you are perceived to have the same childish and petty opinions as Term about certain people and groups. That can only distract from the real issues like AMP or immigration among others. Did the few who attended council meetings stop the 2 million dollar AMP deal.
The fight is with the issues and problems, not people Term doesn't like. Want to fight a politician then do it at election time and not in a blog. Term, you believe you are doing the right thing yet didn't stop AMP. The rally group must also think they are doing the right thing too. They are also unsuccessful so far.
Bottom line, yes or no. No buts. Do you think the rally group is wrong for fighting illegal immigration? Simple yes or no answer.
By the way, I doubt you would find many who say you are wrong for fighting the AMP deal. Even the members of the rally group.
Young people in this town have grown up going to school with illegals. They are their friends. They don't have the whole comprehension of what their presence is doing to this country or what it is costing. They just know them as friends. That is why they don't take up the fight. Not just with the rally group but with this issue as a whole across the whole country. Again, it has nothing to do with the rally group. One day these young people will be paying for these illegals and then their eyes will open. But by then it will be too late.
Term, how did your battles with the house next to Falcones and the one by Jefferson St. turn out? Were you able to put an end to illegal immigration in Painesville when you complained about these. You say the rally group is a failure. Name one of your successes that put an end to this problem in Painesville. Name the politician you have met with personally and got him or her to solve the problem. I mean one you actually sat down with in a formal meeting. Waiting.
The POC meeting begins at 6:30 pm at Morley Library. All are welcome and encouraged to attend.
I think most would be surprised to find the variety of ideas and opinions that exist within the committee. Please join us and further diversify the group.
To 6:03....I did not say that the Rally Team is part of the John Birch Society...I was ASKING whether they were affiliated because when I went by one of their 'rallies' at Veterans' Park, I saw JBS members passing out literature. I was trying not to draw a wrong conclusion, just trying to get an accurate answer. And, NO, I do not think the Rally Group is wrong to fight illegal immigration...I just don't agree with their methods. And, yes, maybe I could have found a better way to stop the AMP deal. And what's wrong with a blog? You're reading it aren't you?
Minutes from the Painesville Oversight Committee Meeting
1. AFEC Contract-Thank you to everyone who called the members of council to discuss this matter and also to those who spoke at the council meeting last night.
Meigs County Amp Ohio Contract -Need to keep on bringing this up in council meetings and make sure that this is not forgotten. Need to discuss this in some more detail. What are the facts? What are the real numbers? Hada, Hach and Fountain are the only ones left on council that voted for this.
2. Recall -Discussed the pro and cons about starting the recall process for Hada, Hach and Fountain because they voted for the previous Amp contract. Are there any ramifications for any of us to do a recall. After the discussion we voted on whether to move forward with the recall. The vote was 4 -8 against. Angelo has already emailed the law director concerning the recall procedure and has had no response. He will email once a week until he gets a response.
3. Mayor vs City Manager-Discussed whether at some point we would like to change Painesville's form of government from City Manager to Mayor. Different cities have had success with both forms of government. The final consensus was, via an all to nothing vote, that currently we would prefer a City Manager.
4. Term Limits -Should we have term limits for council and school board members? These were there different types discussed: no term limits; 2 terms only; 2 terms then sit 1 out before reapplying; 2 terms in a ward, then 2 terms at large. There appear to be good points for all of these options. It was decided to leave this topic for a meeting after the next election.
5. City Income tax Reciprocity-Should Painesville give a credit for living in Painesville and working in a different City? Unfortunately there were too many discussions going on at the same time. Topic for future meeting.
6. POC Tent at Party in the Park -Cost of tent is $150 for the 3 days. Someone would have to create literature before the event and people would have to commit to manning the tent. Maybe we could share a tent with one of the council people? This was decided against due to the fact that we did not want people to think that the POC was tied to a specific council person. After a short discussion we decided not to do anything for this years event. Maybe next year or another event.
7. Millstone/Gristmill-Do we really want this to be a park? Bidding for this property is 10 am Monday morning unless there is another appeal. Many felt that an appeal would be a strong possibility thereby pushing the auction back past Oct. At which time the city would loose the FEMA money and the loan from the state of Ohio for the sewer plant. We will discuss this more at the next meeting.
8. School Issues -Some people committed to attending the school board meetings. What happens in August? Busing cut, possibly privatized, all day Kindergarten, pay to play etc. The community needs answers, and not the day before school starts.
9. Next Meeting -Tuesday 26th July 6.30pm in the library.
10. Topics for next meeting -Millstone Property. School issues with delays on getting notifications out.
11. Tuesday June 21st 2011 6.30pm at Jalapeno Loco
June 21st 2011
Tuesday, June 21, 2011
6:30 PM
Minutes Page 1
I was at the meeting in question along with a person passing out John Bitch literature, they at a short time let a drunk speak!
I think Term's point was if the party in power contols all three branch why NO illegal immigration Bills? I know most of the people in the rally group they are good people . I was told a change in Columbus would fix this? What happened?
Can the Rally Team produce these horrible email fom Term? If not they could say they received them from anyone?
I don't understand why he even puts up with these half-wits on that team? They should be blocked.
I would never think of blocking anyones views including the rally team's. That's the point of this blog. find out what your neighbors think. We all don't think the same. The Rally Team can do as they wish on their site the same as I can on mine. I just get upset when they come here and spout that I left them horrible e-mail when I know I didn't. Unless horrible means I didn't walk lockstep with their ideas?
Yes, I was at the rally and saw the drunk. How do you stop someone from entering the square? The police were called and he was taken away in hand cuffs. Term, should the person handing out JBS literature been arrested too? There's that free speech again. KJenkins, thanks for welcoming all to your meetings. Just remember, you may get someone like the drunk or JBS member. I'm sure the rally group had to get a permit. Did the JBS member get one?
"I went by one of there rallies" or have you ever attended one of their meetings? How can you draw an accurate conclusion or opinion? That's why I ask for minutes or web site. Then it is in writing so everyone can see the same thing. No someone told me, or I think, or he said this but she said that.
Term, thanks for posting the minutes. Keep this up in a timely manner after every meeting and you will gain more support. Remember, not everyone can attend meeting same as not everyone gets channel 12.
Term, Thank you for this Blog. I'm dumbfounded by The accusations leveled against you and this Blog. You have created a written history of so many issues and topics. You've provided minutes, photos, emails, ect, and then people with selective memory still try to rewrite history. When people boast of "horrible emails" and video of intimidating Council Presidents and then can't produce them, well that says a lot about those wild accusations. Term, Keep up the good fight.
Term did not see "members" of the John Birch Society handing out literature at the first rally. There he goes again. He saw ONE guy -- he knows who that guy is -- and as soon as the Rally Team was told about it, the guy was asked to stop and he did. That did not stop Term from latching on to that and spreading that rumor -- for what? -- four YEARS. He was making up all kinds of stuff about the Rally Team right from the minute he heard someone was forming the group.
Term, did the Rally Team have to block you and your friend's emails or not? (You know, your friend's emails with your name on them, too, that said you agreed 100% with them, along with your own?)
And 7:45 is right. The kids don't get that they are losing their country because of the illegals. It's up to the adults to fight this battle and get it over with already.
Notice the satisfaction Term has whenever he can attack the Rally Team and say they have not been successful enough. He was jealous right from the very beginning and he is still jealous today. Nobody came to him and his friend to ask their opinion or to ask them to spearhead it, and they didn't like that. And he is still carrying on as child. Really, notice the satisfaction. He would rather lose this country to the illegals as long as he can point to the Rally Team and say that they did not save the entire country all on their own - HAH!
9:55 Your right you can't stop someone from entering the Park. Why then give him your microphone?
All I did was ask a question. I never suggested anyone get arrested.
You had Tea Party pamplets, pro-life pamplets,along with JBS pampletsI thought this was about Illegal Immigration. Nothing wrong with passing things out but who's rally was it?
The rally team had no business letting the drunk speak, and as far as flyers don't you control your group? I was there and I watched this display and I haven't been back!
Post the email's Term sent the rally team not emails sent to Term as well as you. Where are his emails????
Again Term, can you control what someone says? It would be nice to have a 10 second or whatever delay like they have to do on TV now for wardrobe malfunctions or 4 letter words. Can't do that live. Have things ever got out of hand at council meetings or other meetings? How about court? Ask John Murphy. The drunk was arrested. Still you hold him and the member of JBS as an example of the rally team. I see it as a problem Painesville has to deal with. Homeless and others in the town square. What if I said that there were the Ladies of Summer working the streets while the POC was meeting at Chesters. Then I said this is what I saw at your meeting. The two have no connection but I could keep telling people that's what I saw and it wouldn't be a lie. Just not the whole story. People would here that or read that and think that's what really is happening.
I think you have a problem with one person on the rally team. Do you even realize that she is no longer a member. I was told she took another job or cause.
If you don't agree with them then fight immigration your way. Remember, this is a federal, state and local fight. We need the laws enforced. Just curious, have you done any of the things to fight illegal immigration that you accuse the rally group of not doing? Met with politicians or talked to employers who hire illegals. Have you talked to other local officials to see what they are doing? Have you met with any of the judges to see how they enforce the laws? I guess I'm asking what do you plan to do different? How soon will we see positive results?
I never had a problem with anybody on the Rally Team.
Just a question when the founders of this country were in the process of it's forming I willing to bet many meetings were held in pubs. The ladies of the street were not given a microphone if they were shame on us. I'm thinking of leaving the POC this group has so many good people wanting to make Painesville a better place It might be better that they aren't associated in any way with me. Seems I have become a lightning rods for a few of you. They don't need me drawing negative comments from some anonymous posters.
People are telling the truth about you as it concerns the Rally Team because you keep attacking them and saying ridiculous things. Answer the question, Term. Did the Rally Team have to block you and your friend's emails? You are evading the question.
That's funny, Term. Now that people have had enough of you and all the ridiculous things you have said against the Rally Team, and they are coming out to set the record straight, you are now taking the role of the POOR VICTIM? Funny. You got away with all the crap you were saying for way too long. Don't like it when people tell the truth, huh?
TERM, the martyr.
3:17: Nobody is killing Mexicans. Give me a break. Are you seriously going to blame the people who are trying to get the laws of our land upheld instead of the people who are breaking those laws? You need to get YOUR history books out. Even Rome fell. And while you are at it, look up the Trojan Horse. We have a huge Trojan Horse going on here in the form of millions and millions of babies being born to illegals (as fast as they can get them to come out), who are now legal citizens. This alone can lead to the downfall of America. The Mexicans know it. It is a silent takeover. They laugh at us behind our backs because they know that for every month of time they buy that they are not made to leave, they are that much closer to taking over America. While the people in charge of their arenas chastise our government to treat them ever so nicely and to legalize them, they know that they are taking over our country, and that we are too stupid to stop it. If you want to know what will become of us soon enough, just go to Mexico, if you dare, and take a good look around. Really, nobody is killing Mexicans or proposing that we do so. We just want them to go home. Certainly we would not be allowed to squat in THEIR country and to bleed it dry.
I'm wondering how many bridges have you burned with others in Painesville. There is a difference between asking questions and attacking someone's integrity. Yes you have a right to answers just like everyone else. But just how many friends have you made in city council, school board, city administration, city employees, board of elections, rally group, safety forces and even the Republicans. Yes, I think both parties need to work together. Just look at the debt crisis. How many people or groups mentioned above do you seriously think want to work WITH you?
As a news source, you are a good source of things most people don't know or hear about. But as a news commentator, you are just as bad as the rest of them on TV. Either political agenda or visits per day is the driving force. Is the sensationalism the driving force behind your attacks? You have said over and over you can't argue with Republicans. Does that go for the rest of the ones I mentioned above? How many of those people would want to work with you? Maybe you can solve all Painesville's problems yourself. But if you can't, you need the support of as many people and groups as possible. Other than the POC, I see very few of these other groups willing to work with you at the moment.
You know they are not going to go home. Immigration is what made this country great, from the beginning. Legal Immigration.
Yes, I agree there are problems but you sound like a bunch of vigilantes and that has never had a good outcome.
Tax payers pay for the "illegals" education. Many have graduated with degrees in higher education, then deported. What sense does this make. You pay for their education, health care etc and send them home. Make them part of the solution and pay taxes. Pay their student loans and get in the system. Check your numbers on the Chinese population and what is going on. Why single out one nationality? I say go for them all.
You should be banging on the school administrations doors before you step one toe in the Square with a bull horn. The problems currently in Painesville have a great deal to do the school and it's policy. It is a huge stepping stone the community problems.
And yes, I am quite familiar with Rome's history but I am also very aware of more current events as far back as World 1 and a few days ago. The Rally Team manifesto has no place in Painesville. Take it to Washington and Columbus. You are stirring the pot of hate. The venom spewed on this blog are all I need to read and I am not for or against the blog master.
4:47 Lets assume someone uninvited moved into your home with the promise to do the odd jobs you don't want to do. Would you let them stay? If you did would you take the resposibility to educate their children? provide healthcare for them and their family. Please explain with your idea's why have citizenship,heck why even have borders? I understand the plight of the illegals but that doesn't make breaking United States laws O.k. does it?
American citizenship can never become an ala carte society if it does we soon will no longer exist.
The Rally Team's doesn't have a manifesto I believe they just want present laws enforced. If you don't like the laws change them. Just don't everyone pass the buck and pretend they don't exist.
"Take it to Washington and Columbus."
People here say it has gone underground. Has no place in Painesville. Tried rallies in square, tried renting booths in party in the park and picketed when they had people signing those up for the Mexican Matricula card. Picketed the people not the building. The last one is Term's pet peeve. I think they realize there is very little support in Painesville. They are still going to Columbus and DC. Are willing to help other people (Oberlin) with their fight against illegal immigration. Term also thought this was wrong. People claim to be against illegal immigration but hate this group more. Doesn't quite make sense to me. Wonder who's fault that is. I use to think it was Veronica. Then, former city council members. Now, with those mostly out of the picture, I believe it is this site.
With a form of Dream Act in California just passed. Now illegal immigrants in that state can get college grants. A state with one of the biggest deficit problems in the country passes this. Just when are we going to put an end to this type of entitlements and others for illegal immigrants?
No wonder Painesville remains a sanctuary city. The city treats the illegal immigrants better than the citizens treat the anti-illegal immigration group. Doesn't matter if they live in Painesville or in a local community, people would rather fight this group than the real issue. Well, we will get what we support. One thing for sure, it isn't the rally group playing loud music, living 10 to 20 in a single family house, cars parked all over the yard, 5 or more garbage cans or adding to the cost of our education. They also didn't remove the flags from our schools or have 5 valedictorians so they could have 2 Hispanics on the list. Those of you who live here, I'm sure you could name many other problems. What do you really want to fight against?
I may not agree with everything they stand for but I also don't agree with everything people say here either. Here legally, I support you. Illegally, then why should you demand special treatment.
To 4:47: The Rally Team and the other anti-illegals groups do not just want the Mexicans out. They want all illegals out. It's the law. The Mexican government said several years ago that there were 20 million illegals Mexicans here and that they had the ghost towns to prove it. Kind of hard not to speak about the Mexicans when their whole country is emptying out into ours and they are the worst offenders. But we have no idea who is in our country and where they are. That is part of the problem.
4:47 here:
I am completely against illegal immigration and all who are hiding here.
The other part of the equation, we are paying for their education. K-12. If they are not caught and deported they can continue on with higher education, sometimes a big part of their higher education is paid for on our dime, again.
The graduate, usually ends up somewhere at the top of their class and then we send them packing back to Mexico, China, India, the Middle East with their wonderful education. If we have that much invested why not let them stay here and pay back into the system through taxes every wage earner pays?
I don't see policy changing in Washington or Columbus on the illegal problem. There aren't enough agents to enforce the laws on the books. Even if the guy and his multitude of relatives lives next door and you know they are here illegally and you turn them in, very little will happen. This is so far down the list in Washington right now I give it little hope of changing in my lifetime. So make it work on some level, any level.
Human migration has taken place for centuries and if you think we are going stop it you are sadly mistaken.
4:47 Problem is that they come here to get a better education than they can get at home. We don't send them packing because they are only here for the entitlements and benefits. Guess who pays for this?
Some do stay but a lot just take the education we provide and run back home. Now we add the quotas for so many slots saved for the poor, certain ethnic groups or what ever and our students must find somewhere else to attend school. All this is paid for on our dime. Wonder why we have so many foreign doctors? Where do our doctors go to school? We use to only worry about racial civil rights. Now it seems the ones being denied rights is the average American citizen.
To 7:15: The way we got into this mess is because our government was saying exactly what you are saying for decades now. How many amnesties did we have - 2 or 3? - that was supposed to solve the problem because "there was no way to get them all out." Well, it didn't work. If they would have gotten them out then and put a stop to this, we would not be losing our country to them now.
And fortunately there IS a way to get them all out now. The government has a program E-Verify, I think it is called, for the employers to use to weed out all the illegals when they are hiring and to get rid of the ones they have now. There are some kinks in it that need to be worked out because of all the fraud and false I.D's the illegals use, but it will work.
If Ohio started to use this system, then all the illegals would just leave on their own. With no American jobs for them to steal, they would have to go home. The ones that are left will be much easier for our law enforcement to find and deport. They need to hurry up and implement a temporary workers program like some of the other states have just for the fields, then we can begin.
It is now doable. It just needs to be done. If everyone in Ohio who was against illegal immigrants actually stood up and demanded this, we would have it. The solution is not to keep them here after we educate them, the idea is to not educate them. They have their own countries that should be educating them.
We are losing our entire country to the illegals. You get that, right?
4:47 here......... believe me every time I write the check for our child's tuition payment I get a hand cramp.
this started in Painesville more than 20 years ago.
Our child was denied entry into our neighborhood school, which is walking distance. We own a house, pay our taxes and utilities and were denied entry into the neighborhood school.
We started asking questions and were told to wait until Christmas break as 50% of the schools population would be gone and there would be room. Clueless as we were, we asked where is half the schools population going? Answer: Home to Mexico. Our jaws dropped and we put our child on a bus every morning to be bussed across town to another school for 3 months.
That was 17 years ago.........
6:24: That is when they used to go back home. Now they don't. Now they stay and take jobs that Americans want, and we pay and pay and pay for them in every way possible. The Mexican government actually got really ticked off recently when someone was talking about sending them all home to Mexico. Where are we going to put them, where will they live, etc., etc., etc. They were indignant! Can you imagine? It's time for a temporary workers program to be put into place along with the E-Verify. That will do it. And it's either now or never. If we don't do these things right now, it will be too late. This will be a Mexican country, and sadly that is not an exaggeration.
To all of you Rally Team supporters here that are knocking Term....why don't you say something important for a change...instead of re-hashing and re-writing ancient history. If I were a member of the Rally Team (I checked them out, not my cup of tea so to speak) I would distance myself from you! And if they thought it was important enough to settle any dispute with Term...someone from their group would prove they blocked his e-mails. Term put up... now you all can shut up.
What do some of you expect from the POC? This is a volunteer group that got organized for the betterment of Painesville. How many issues do you think they can tackle and still be effective? Illegal immigration is a huge problem here but there are already several groups working on it. The POC is focusing on several other issues that no one is checking into or doing anything about. No one here has a red 'S' on their chests so quit whining, join the group of your choice and get active yourselves.
To Alice 8:05: The really stupid thing is that Term knows I am telling the truth, but yet he keeps calling me out, and his supporters like you who come out against the Rally Team for him, are doing it too. I would think that the e-mails that he sent that HE posted on "The Answer is Blowing in the Wind" Monday, July 25, 2011, would have been enough for you to see what a ridiculous problem he was being. He keeps it up to this day, and people like you follow him. Nobody from the Rally Team, or who supports the Rally Team, is rehashing things because they want to. It is because it has been years and Term is still spewing his garbage. I for one would like to shut him up for once and for all. Really, go back and read those ridiculous e-mails. And you say that the Rally Team is not your cup of tea. Again, who cares, but what are you doing on your own?
To 8:11: I don't know anyone from the Rally Team or anyone who supports the Rally Team that is asking Term to join the group or use the POC to fight illegal immigration. Nobody.
To 2:31....I really don't see what was so terrible in any of the e-mails Term posted here. I have had my differences in the past with him on many issues but that doesn't mean that I will throw the baby out with the bathwater. This blog is still one of the most informative things Painesville has going and Term is still one of the most visibly active citizens the city has. You don't like him....that's your right... and also your problem. Do you have anything worthwhile to add to this discussion (or any other)? Then lets hear it. Otherwise I'll just keep reading your rants strictly for the entertainment value and move on to something with some merit.
2:31...you sound kinda threatening there...."shut him up once and for all". I'm signing up for Spanish lessons mainly because of your group's ineffectiveness. Hasta la vista bebe!
8:55 and 8:57. He stopped so I stopped. If you want me to start it up again, I can. I have more emails. And if you don't think there is anything wrong with the emails, then there are not enough words to speak to you with. And to 8:57: Glad you think it's all so funny. You'd BETTER sign up for Spanish lessons, because you are going to need them. But instead of laughing at the Rally Group, signing up for Spanish lessons and making stupid posts, I would strongly suggest that you fight on your own to resolve the small problem of the United States of America being lost forever because of the illegals. Really, you might want to give it try.
To 5:19....this is 8:57... I have already done some things on my own that you are obviously unaware of and I don't feel the need to clue you in. Sorry you don't like my sense of humor. Do we have a real illegal immigration problem in the US? Yes! Do we have a real leadership problem at all levels of government...most notably locally? Yes! Doesn't every single person in this world have concerns of a personal nature, family, job, health etc? Yes! But none of the above will make me take things so seriously that I can't laugh once in a while. We're only here for a short time so lighten up a little.
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