"WHO ARE YOU" the who
I really want to know.
At a recent POC meeting the members thought it might be a good idea to get a recall petition started on the three councilman still serving on council that voted for the AMP Ohio Meigs County deal; Council-President Joe Hada, Ward IV councilman Paul Hach and Ward III councilman Bob Fountain. Since we believe Mr. Fountain will not pursue another term, and councilman Hach can explain his votes at 'meet the candidate' meetings it was decided that a recall at this time will not be beneficial to the city. At the same time, some of us were given the job of researching what a legal recall entails.
The following is an excerpt from the city charter:
Section II Recall
The power of recall of elected official of the city of the City is reserved to the people of the City. The procedure to be followed shall be provided by state statute except that a petition for recall shall require the signatures of registered electors of the City equal in number to 20% of registered electors of the City.
No person removed by recall shall be eligible to be elected or appointed to any office of the City for a period of two years after the date of the recall.
Pretty ambiguous. Mr. Gurley is the final arbiter in deciding if the petitions meet the proper standards. Do I need a reason? Does the elected officials all have to have separate petitions?
I was told in the distant past a City petition was disallowed by him due to language in the petition.
I (along with everyone else involved in this process) don't want Mr. Gurley to act on behalf of the people with the recall petitions, I certainly don't expect him to take sides. I only expect some guidance so that if we do all this it meets his standards to be put on the ballot.
Mrs. Clair, Lake County Board of Election Director suggested we ask him what he wanted in our recall petitions. I waited a week and sent another request to him.
Mr. Gurley"s answer surprised me. He felt like any advice he gave would be a "conflict of interest." Well, all along I thought he was the City Law Director... not Council's. Again, I didn't see a conflict here. Mr. Gurley is an unelected city official appointed by the city manager, and not hired by council. Where is the conflict? Is he CITY law director or COUNCIL law director?
Maybe if at some time during the Meigs County 50 year power purchase some council member would have asked him to review the contract with AMP-OHIO we wouldn't be in this position....or would we?
posted by terminator1 @ 9:13 AM
61 Comments
61 Comments:
Yes, where was the Girlieman during this fiasco? He is paid by us and did he or didn't he recommend the Meigs deal?
Maybe the conflict he was talking about was his rearend?
I can't believe he wasn't asked by council to review the contract? If he did what was he thinking?
There was a recall in Eastlake around 2004 or so. It was when just about everyone in the government was either getting indicted, going to jail, or resigning. There are some old News-Herald articles on the website that might show you who started the recall drive. Maybe they could give you some guidance.
7:41 I reviewed the Eastlake Charter. It unlike Painesville pretty much spells everything out. Google Eastlake Charter to see what I mean. Why are things so hard in Painesville?
I don't think it is up to Hurley to reccomend or not a deal like Meigs. His job is to look at the contract and tell the council if everything in it is legal and what it will require, it is then up to council to decide.
City Law Director Gurley is a very scary individual, in my opinion. He says yes when McMahan/Hada want him to, he says no when they want him to. I don't believe he hardly even takes the actual law into account. I do not believe that he can be trusted for anything. Anything. I think he's got a frightening moral code, and I wouldn't trust him to walk my dog. The fact that he says there is a conflict of interest when asked what it takes for a proper recall petition in Painesville means to me that he needs to be fired right NOW.
Things are so hard in Painesville because they want them to be. So, for example, Gurley could turn down a petition for recall with nobody being able to prove anything to the contrary. That would be my guess. And he's shady just like the rest of them. Can't trust HIM, either.
Only part-time employee with full time benefits? With Perry and M-O-L paying him also?
Who is he? The Boss.
Rita and joe work for him.gardroug
getting into the real power structure in the little town of Painesville with this blog post. I think it is interesting response as well. Conflict of interest, of who's interest?
Now for the Hada story:
If I told my children that I am "proudly" going to gamble away a portion of our family's liquidity (checking account balance) at the race track, how would my family react? I am sure they would love me still if I lost or won the bet, if I am a good father and spouse, but they would be extremely angry and probably would ridicule me any time future decisions on money would arise. They would be skeptical of my choices. Council members of Painesville are not family members, they are elected representatives of the people of the city. Being that is the case, I think when faced with this type of dilemma, it is time to make a decision, keep the guy that voted proudly or get him out of office and power within the city?
By the way, this guy has been on council since when? Is it time for a change???
TO POST 11;39 the question is where do we get guidance for a re-call for council members since our city charter is not structured on the procedure. It seems the law irector does not want to interpret the city charter. WHO DO W E ASK FOR GUIDANCE???? concerned resident,
Another little tidbit about Gurley for anyone who wasn't there or who may have forgotten. Bill Horvath (former councilman and Council President), when pressed at a "meet the candidates night" admitted with a big smile on his face and VERY proudly that, yes, he used Gurley to go after the citizens when he needed Gurley to back him up and shut someone up. He was MIGHTY proud of himself. Even asked if he could posture himself by coming out from behind the table where they were positioned and getting in front of the table to drive his point home and try to intimidate the questioner. Not only was the questioner not intimidated, but Horvath was finally voted out of office. Really, these people have to go. We got Horvath out after -- what -- decades in there? We can get the rest of them out, too. I'm all for this recall talk. Let's figure this out and get the rest of the bums out, too, Gurley included.
3:14 I'm sorry I think I would have remember this, but I don't. I do remember him sending a letter to Senator DeWine on city stationary with the excuse no one on council told him not to?
One more thing you must realize 3:14 we didn't get here overnight and we will not reverse things overnight.
There are many very entrenched here with stong backing and change will not do easy.
All we can do is elect people to council with no ties to anyone only making Painesville a better place to live. All we can ask for is 7 people who can think for independently for themselves.
Term, your starting to upset the aplle cart. How could Hada switch his vote at the last meeting? I am glad that there won't be another meeting for a while so maybe people will see how wishy-washy he has become.
Term, can you please post this
June 7, 2011
Tonight
Painesville Little League
All Stars Baseball Team, Jr. Div.
Beat Pyatuming Valley 9 to 7
At Pyatuming to advance to the next game at Painesville Rec. Park
this Saturday at 11 AM.
Please come out and support our Painesville team.
Concession stand open
50/50 Raffle
and good times.
Sorry Term the game was tonight July 7, 2011 not June
This is 3:14 to Term 6:06. You are talking about two different issues. The "meet the candidate night" was at the new Elm street school. He was taken to task for using Gurley to abuse and shut up the citizens when he (Horvath) didn't like what they were saying at council meetings. There were many people there, so there are many people who can attest to it. I also believe Mrs. Hal Werner got it on tape, since her husband was running and was on the panel answering questions.
The issue you are talking about was when Horvath sent a letter To DeWine telling him that we here in Painesville love our illegals and want them to be left alone. Then he denied and denied and denied all kinds of things about the letter until it was all proven to be true. Take a good look around our city now, and make sure you all thank Horvath next time you run into him.
But the issue I was talking about was him being so proud of himself for using Gurley against the citizens. Out of control. They were all out of control then, and the ones left (Gurley, McMahon, Hada, Hach and Fountain, and also Fodor) are out of control now. Werner and DiNallo can go, too, as far as I am concerned.
8:09 Please keep us posted on Painesville Little League games.
Alot of people were at the game.
3:14 I just don't remember this?[Not saying it didn't happen}
I miss Mr. Horvath telling everyone to shut off their "vibrators" before council meetings.
I will say this about Mr. Horvath he always came up to me a public event and asked how I was doing. Unlike some who turn-tail.
Maybe the County Prosecutor could advise on a potential recall.
TERM: What have you found out about the RECALL structure at this time??. [JULY 8 2011.] people on the sidewalk's are wondering. resident of painesville.
Nothing yet. I am in the process of still trying to find out? Now who do we know that works in the County Prosecutor office?
I don't remember this Horvath - Gurley conversation. I thought I attended all the meet the candidate meetings and I don't remember any at Elm Street School. Perhaps Mrs. Werner can put it on U-tube.
I miss Wild Bill Horvath.
A million years ago, The Finance Director, The Law Director and the City Manager were required to research and sign off on the $6 million dollar IO [Investment Only]. We lost most or all of that money. Council asked David Miller to fall on his sword and resign. Then Council fired poor old Les. Gurley continues. Hmmmmmm.
3:48 I don't remember a "meet the candidates" at Elm St. either?
Are you setting us up? We know that Abby DelaMonttee, and some guy running for ward 3 both work there.
It's all run like a private club.
This is 3:14. The mediator was Derrick. Pretty sure -- 99.9% sure Elm Street School. I don't know if Mrs. Werner was just filming when her husband talked or not, but it seemed like she was taping the whole thing. Horvath didn't like the question or the persistence of the questioner, so asked if he could get in FRONT of the table instead of behind it where everyone else was. It was ridiculous. It was a move meant to intimidate the questioner. It did not. He ended up laughing about the fact that, yes, he did use Gurley against the citizens when he needed to. This guy was on council so long that his self-importance was comical if you stayed detached and looked from the outside in.
3:14 I'm 99.9% sure there was no candidate meeting at Elm St. 4 years ago. Maybe you were at Chestnut St.?
4:52 No setup do you really think they would help?
Bill Horvath was a lot of things. I would agree that he could be "detached" and "self important". Intimidating? Using the Law Director to "go after" and "shut up" citizens? I don't think so. I've known Derrick for a long time and he did a great job mediating. I don't think he would have allowed anyone to come around the table and intimidate any questioner. This whole accusation doesn't pass the smell test. I'd like to see Mrs Werners tape.
This is 3:14. Sure, I guess it could have been at Chestnut. To 6:52: I never said Horvath was "detached." I could call him a lot of things, but that is not one of the words I used. This whole thing just started out by me saying that Horvath even laughed about it when he proudly said that, yes, he used Gurley against the citizens. But if you want to get down to details like calling me a liar then, yes, Derrick did a great job mediating. I never said he didn't. He did allow Horvath to come around to the other side of the table. And I was there when Derrick was taken to task at the end of it by someone who was unhappy because he thought the QUESTIONER needled HORVATH, and was feeling sorry for HORVATH. After Horvath stood there and thought it was very funny that he sicked Gurley on the citizens when he felt like it, I thought, yeah, and people like THIS guy is why Horvath was allowed to be in office for so long. Think what you want. I'm sure there are other people who remember it. "The whole accusation doesn't pass the smell test."? Give me a break. What would be my reason to lie. Horvath is long gone.
This is 3:14 adding to my last post: Horvath did during that appearance what he always did at a council meeting, which is if you don't like the question, intimidate and shut-up the questioner - or lie - he was good at that, too. And he LOVED to sic Gurley on people when he could. And Gurley would go right along with him and say whatever he needed to to back Horvath up, whether it was correct legal information or not, which I think was the point of my first post.
PLEASE REREAD, POST-118, LETS GET THE SUBJECT BACK ON TRACK.WE NEED TO FIND THE INFORMATION ABOUT A RECALL OF OUR COUNCIL. concerned
Well to start with Arlene Becks is looking to setup a meeting with Mr. Gurley this coming week. Lets see how she makes out.
I am amazed how many Painesville resident know absolutely zilch about AMP-OHIO and the city getting stuck with over 2 million in costs.
Someone needs to write a "Letter-to-our-Readers" in The News-Herald and list all of the huge losses that this administration has accomplished for this city because you are right, Term, most people have no idea.
And to 6:52: If you don't think that Horvath tried to intimidate and shut-up the citizens and that he used Gurley to do it when he could, then you were not paying attention.
TO TERM, INTERESTING IN TODAYS NEWS HERALD, JULY10-2011,A4, POLITICAL COMMENTS,THE ARTICLE STATES,TWO CANDIATES ARE RUNNING FOR POLITICAL OFFICE, KATIE JENKINS IN WARD 2 AND MIKE DELEONE FOR WARD 3. FUNNY, THERE IS NO MENTION OF RICHARD TIBBETS RUNNING IN WARD 3 OR JOHN MURPHY RUNNING IN WARD 4!!!!!.I GUESS YOU HAVE TO BE THE CHOSEN ONES TO GET MENTIONED.THE CHOSEN ONES DON'T HAVE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES, JUST FOLLOW THE {LEADER). THANK GOODNESS FOR OUR PAINESVILLE CITY BLOG.PS. TO POST 7;08, THE REASON PAINESVILLE RESIDENTS DON'T KNOW ABOUT AMP-OHIO,IS THAT COUNCIL MEETINGS,THERE IS NOT ANY OPEN DISCUSSIONS ALLOWED, BEYOND 3 MINUTES.
Search Results 7 Docket(s) found matching search criteria.
Docket Date Docket Text Amount Amount Due Images
07/27/2010 JOURNAL ENTRY FILED: This matter is dismissed without prejudice to allow the petition to re-file the matter should it become necessary. See order. DH vol. 1918 pg 813 2.00 2.00
07/21/2010 Return of service, failure summons/notice of court order/notice of hearing: On 7/14/10 I attempted to serve Arlene L. Becks and was unable to make contact for service. Dep., #18 6.00 6.00
07/14/2010 Scheduled Event: CIVIL PROTECTION ORDER Date: 07/19/2010 Time: 1:30 pm Judge: CULOTTA, VINCENT A Location: 0.00 0.00
07/14/2010 Notice of Court Order, Certified copy of Magistrat's Decision and Order issued to Timothy Edward Lilly by regular mail, postal certificate of mailing, filed. 2.00 2.00
07/14/2010 Summons, Notice of Hearing, set for July 19, 2010 @ 1:30 pm, Notice of Court Order, Certified Copy of Magistrate's Decision and Order, copy of Petition issued to Lake County Sheriff for Service on Miss Arlene Becks. 6.00 6.00
07/13/2010 JOURNAL ENTRY FILED: Order of Magistrate the petitioner has not met the burden under R.C. 2903.214 to receive an emergency protection order against Respondent Arlene Lucy Becks, it is the Order of the Magistrate that a hearing to determine whether a permanent order of protection ought to be granted against the respondent, is set for July 19, 2010 @ 1:30pm. vol 1915 pg 980-981 2.00 2.00
07/13/2010 Petition for civil stalking protection order, (scpo)(R.C. 2903.214), instructions for service, filed.
To post 8;21 It seems you could HELP the need to find out who would outline our recall procedure to save the city. PLEASE LET US KNOW WHO. concered.
To 8:21.....you did a slick post there...why don't you tell the rest of the story. You didn't lie but you most certainly omitted some truth.
Is Arelene in Jail. I will have a bake sail to get money to get her out.. Please join me on Pearl St. Thanks.. Mrs. Concern
To 6:34 PM
Just go to the lake county common pleas court and look it up yourself, the whole docket would not fit in the comment box, and you can also look her up under Painesville muni court if you want to.
No big deal, No lie
IT loooks likes this recall is getting attention at the prosecutor office. Maybe some of h i s employees can speak to Gurley. [REFERING TO THE LAST FEW POST.] still waiting for recall information. city resident.
to 4:42 - TO TERM, INTERESTING IN TODAYS NEWS HERALD, JULY10-2011,A4, POLITICAL COMMENTS,THE ARTICLE STATES,TWO CANDIATES ARE RUNNING FOR POLITICAL OFFICE, KATIE JENKINS IN WARD 2 AND MIKE DELEONE FOR WARD 3. FUNNY, THERE IS NO MENTION OF RICHARD TIBBETS RUNNING IN WARD 3 OR JOHN MURPHY RUNNING IN WARD 4!!!!!.I GUESS YOU HAVE TO BE THE CHOSEN ONES TO GET MENTIONED.THE CHOSEN ONES DON'T HAVE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES, JUST FOLLOW THE {LEADER)
Is it possible our names were mentioned because we've filed our petitions, while maybe Murphy and Tibbets have not? I was completely unaware that this article/mention even existed.
I don't know what "Leader" you think I follow, but I assure you, I think for myself.
to 4:42 - I just looked...and yes, if you had read it properly, you would have seen that myself and Mr. DeLeone are listed because we have FILED our petitions (the section you referenced is listed under the header "Lake County filings").
I am sure that Richard and John will get listed when they have also filed.
Have to agree with you Katie.
There presently are no chosen anybody.
What's with all the capital letters?
So this is wonderful news. There is nobody running yet that has been hand-picked by Hada, etc.? Very good news. That means we really have a good chance of getting rid of this monopoly that has supported McMahon, mistreated the citizens and wasted so many millions of our dollars with sooooooo many bad decisions. I can hardly believe it. I really never thought I would see this happen here. I just hope enough people are paying attention so that Hada and his crew will be voted out. I suggest everyone who is running put all the mistakes that Hada, etc. made on their campaign literature so that the voters are very carefully and completely informed on just what has been going on around here. Thank you in advance to everyone who is stepping up.
Not so fast Term may not know it but Hada had his hand in supporting one candidate in ward 3 and it ain't Tibbits. What, where is the connection between DeLeone who happens to work for the county prosecutors office? Watch who supports him? The last time the people in ward 3 listened to Hada they didn't have an active councilman for 4 years but that seat voted in step with Hada everytime.
wow just think
Tibbets or murphy could be the next council prez.
While your at it ask Christine Shoop what she thinks of JHADA?
Another of the faithful.
This is 2:20. Thanks to 2:37 and 8:46 for the heads up. Term, will your group make any recommendations? The choices seem pretty obvious to me, but may not be to some others who could use some help.
6:29 Term doesn't have a group he is a member of a group and this blog. has nothing to do with them giving a recommendation to someone or not.
It seems that it would be wise to vent all candidates before November.
Term 4:27: This is 6:29. Okay, when I said "your group", I meant the group you are a member of. You know, all the people in the group, including you. You also said, when the group was started, that the group may give recommendations as to people running for council, so it was a reasonable inquiry.
I am sure that BOTH the POC and this Blog. will recommend candidates. I payed to much attention to the "your" sorry.
I thought Tibbits is a Hada pal. Didn't the Council President appoint him to the Painesville Housing Task Force?
Also, I think Andy Flock should be our next Council President. He's earned it.
If Tibbits is a Hada buddy, why now doesn't he support him for Ward III? The last two apointees Hada has put on committees has well not worked out to well. I think Hada thought Tibbits wouldn't really take the Housing Task Force seriously, and then appointing Sandy Millier to a local environment committee who after seeing that well maybe the administration wasn't really serious resigned.
Neither of these two seem to be apostles of Hada?
The question is when it comes to Tibbits did he use poor judgement then or now?
Term, you may be just a member of the POC, but you have said many times that this is YOUR blog. You run it to give people a place to talk about things. That's good but you, and you alone have censorship rights. Hence, you decide what posts or topics go on this blog and you are the only one who can say everything he wants without censorship. How much you censor, only you know.
Millier and Tibbits are not serious, they just like to talk like they know it all.
10:33 Very, very little. No profanity, no gossipabout husbands ect. Censorship on me? Interesting.
12:40 I believe they are and the next few months with prove this.
The reason the Housing Task Force has not had a meeting for several months,is because the chairman Paul Hach says they have nothing to disscuss. (post 12:40 who do you think is serious PAUL HACH? Does anyone know of any housing issues?
12:40 Watch the end of Monday nights council meeting. Then tell me Tibbits isn't serious?
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