"PUT ANOTHER NICKEL IN......" teresa brewer
Money,Money, Money....
Well.... got to hear first-hand several proposals on how Painesville will improve the infrastructure of its water department. We have problems. We have a rusty water tower, we have an intake problem out on the lake, we have numerous lines that can't handle 250 gallons of water pressure a minute. (Not a good thing if a fire should break out...if the fire hydrant in front of your house has a red band near the top of it...you could be in trouble). Oh...lets not even mention the rusty water line on Elm Street that everyone wants fixed.
Council president Hada estimated that the 4% increase per year (in effect since 2007) would generate 20 million dollars per year...but really it has only generated 18 million dollars annually because the residents of Painesville haven't used the amount of water expected...I guess we're just too conservative. At the same time, since 2007, the city reported that we have lowered the operating expenses by $950,000 on operations at the water plant.
One solution brought up was to get a bond and fix Elm Street (3000 feet of bad pipe) exactly the same way they replaced the line between Storr Street to the freeway bridge. Proposal #2 was to assess residents on Elm Street for their share of the cost to replace the line. That was a no-go. The proposal that seems to work the best for the administration and council members was to assess everyone a flat ten dollars a month on their water bill. So, Tony Torre, a senior widower living on Sanford Street with very low water usage would see his water bill increase by $120.00 a year. At the same time, Jose Hernandez Zorro living in a home on South St Clair with 18 of his closest relatives, using goodness knows how much water a month, will also pay a flat 10 dollars a month. Dedicated just to infrastructure improvement, same as Mr. Torre. Just doesn't sound fair to me. No one even mentioned charging more for usage. It was explained that this assessment could provide the city with the ability to float a 15 million dollar bond to be used for capital improvements on the water lines city-wide. No mention was made of just a straight increase in water rates. I believe this assessment proposal will go nowhere.
In the meantime, Mrs. Arcaro and other Elm Street residents will continue to have their lines flushed until this problem is financially resolved. The city states we operate such that our investment should be in areas where it benefits the most customers. So I guess if you have rusty water you'll have to live with it. For the record, since 2007 there have been 17 water main breaks on Elm Street alone that has cost the city $37,400.
One of my questions: Should Painesville even be in the water business? It appears we cannot sustain this operation. Council should demand that Painesville rates should be compared to Lake County water rates along with AquaOhio water rates (with the stipulation that the water be rust-free). We have to provide this service at a reasonable cost to our residents. They should have to prove that their rates are in the same ballpark as these other two local suppliers. Is Painesville even large enough to support its own water department? (finding out tonight our contract to supply water to Concord Twp. is up in five years?)
And the one question that no one asked the administration was: How much has Painesville spent on water improvements to the annexed properties? Did that come out of the capital improvements fund? Council will receive recommendations from the administration on this issue and will have three readings to let the residents be aware of what the final proposal will be.
28 Comments:
tHANK GOD WE HAVE OUR OWN WATER DEPT.
I HAVE A FRIEND THAT LIVES IN CLEVELAND THERE HAS BEEN A WATER LINE LEAKING IN TO THERE STREET FOR OVER 6 MONTHS AND THEY HAVE VERY LOW PRESSURE.
IN PAINESVILLE IF THERE IS LOW PRESSURE, THE FIRE DEPT. HAS WAYS TO HANDLE THE FIRE.
AND TERM. I LOVE THE RIP ON THE LATAINOS.
Thanks for investigating this water issue, Term. Question: So where is the money that they have raised with higher rates since 2007? That's a lot of money. Where is it? What, if anything, has been done with it? How could that not be enough for continued work and improvement on our water issues without raising rates again? Do you have more info on all of this? Again, thanks for taking an interest in this issue.
I should've taken some pictures while watching the contractors replacing the gas lines on my street today.
Of course, since they had to dig up sidewalks to get to the gas line, we were also able to get an up close and personal look at our water lines for the first time.
My line, between the water MAIN and METER (in other words, the city's portion) was crimped and kinked in one part of it. I still have the same water pressure I did before, but you have to wonder how many others are in this condition and if we're on borrowed time.
As far as AquaOhio or Lake County Water is concerned, my understanding is that they are way more expensive than PC Utilities. Of course, Aqua and LCW don't "fix" a problem by letting hydrants run nonstop...
12:32 Councilman Flock asked what percentage the city kept for capital inprovements? No response.
Reminded me of the time I asked the city manager at a council meeting if the electric department made money? "Sometime we do and sometimes we don't."
They should be made to dig up the water line on the road to nowhere!
Title of post is money money money.
While this is not about water pipes, it does have to do with money and the schools. Something for POC to look at.
If Chardon schools can do it and save money, why can't we?
http://news-herald.com/articles/2011/04/12/news/doc4da49df7009bc218653321.txt
Sounds a lot like SB 5. Maybe it isn't so bad after all, but could it happen here??? Something for this group to look into, don't you think?
Am I to understand that these people being provided rusty water have no other recourse?
They should hire a lawyer and MAKE Painesville provide them with clean rust free water.
For the life of me I can't even understand why there is even a debate about this?
They are paying for a service that the city isn't providing.
You can bet if this was a problem on Levan, Trailwood, Southington, Skinner Ave. this problem would not exist. The city only thought enough to replace the water line to the new school?
I don't agree with much of the banter on this site but come on.
Maybe it is time to make this election out of replacing Rita McMahon?
Read the article on how much money the Chardon schools will save. 1.1 MILLION dollars. Who needs a new school levy? Perry is also discussing money tonight. We should start listening.
Im glad Andy Flock At least came up with a way of paying for the improvements.. instead of having just Elm St. residents pay for the water line. Thanks Councilman Flock about time you come up with a funding mech>
Seenitallnow: It is no longer a debate. The rusty water issue first came to council in January. Mr. McGannon has done studies and remediation on the line (to the extent that he can) since that time, and they're now seeing that there is NO alternative to replacing the line. Now, they just need to figure out how to pay for a $350,000 job. And if they're going to do Elm, don't we all agree that there are SEVERAL other issues (ie. other old water lines, 4 inch lines not fit to put out fire, etc). They need to find a semi-long term funding source
Taking a loan without some kind of financial backing is not an option - currently the city pays out a very large monthly % (75% if I heard correctly) for existing loans.
And yes Adam - a LOT of the city water lines are living on borrowed time.
Council can't win here - they obviously can't ignore the issue, but residents will throw a fit if a capital improvement fee (estimates of the fee range from $7 - $10/month) is tacked on to their water bills. They can either do that ($120/address)OR they can begin charging those 26+ residents in the area where the pipe needs to be replaced to the tune of about $1000/year for the next 15 years.
Term is right that no one proposed raising water rates. I think this is in large due to the fact that they realize they can't rely on rate of water usage to remain constant, so projected revenues could end up being much lower - as was the case for the 4% increase.
It's a choice that seems pretty obvious. But as I said, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Katie, Since your now in the race maybe the first thing you should do [also anyone on council or running for council] should ask for in complete detail the 700 water fund payments for the last ten years. If you get the correct data someone should ask why so much money was spent on outside sources such as the Buckingham Dolittle and Burroghs Law firm?
How much of these expenses had to do with water?
I believe charging those residents a $1000 a year for the next 15 years doesn't seem to be a good of an idea. to fix infrastructure in Painesville.
I for oner have never heard of a city assessing residents for a water line?
I'm with Seenitallnow why the debate? The city has a waterline that could possible hold the city responsible for health issues.
The administration as well as members of councils additudes are irresponsible.
If you can't find a better solution then what you have come up with so far all of you should resign.
I can only wonder what someone who might have consider moving to Painesville and reading that article in the News-Herald must think?
Katie mentions that the city pays out a very high percentage of its income on loans. That's one of the first things that new council members need to look into because, as far as I can tell, the city never pays anything off. They just keep refinancing, refinancing and refinancing. If I ran my home that way, I would have been homeless decades ago.
As far as charging particular residents for their water lines. I have never heard of anything more absurd. Whose idea was this? Hada's?
Since council is the one to approve or not approve the budget every year, why are the fingers pointed at only a few? Didn't Mr. Flock vote yes to approve the budget too. As far as I'm concerned, he did nothing to fix the problem over the past years either.
12:39 I asked the same thing of Mr. Flock. He kindly reminded me that he hasn't approved the budget in the last couple of years because of inconsistancies in the budget brought to the table by the city manager. This is a good example. It's given to council in an up or down format.
Thats why I hold Hada, Hach, and Fountain the most accountable. The DWYT wing of council.
There is no P/L statement on city utilities to my knowledge, it's seems to be fly at the seat of your pants. Hope your starting to see whats going on around here.
Check the invoices that have been paid out of the 700 fund.
This is the mission statement for the City of Painesville water department. If you notice in 'Goal #1' seems we fell a little short.
City of Painesville Annual Budget 2011
Page 313
WATER DISTRIBUTION GOALS 2011
Goal #1: To maintain a safe, reliable and high quality water supply to all our customers
(Relates to City goal: Stewardship)
Objective: To maintain disinfection throughout the distribution system perform proper maintenance
including appropriate pipe replacement and repair procedures, main flushing programs,
proper operations and maintenance of storage tanks, and continuously maintaining a
positive pressure in the distribution system.
Actions: - Keep in stock all essential repair part.
- Keep all essential equipment in good working order.
- Unidirectional Flush 1/3 Distribution System.
- Flush 154 dead-end water mains throughout system.
- Ensure a minimum of 25% daily tank turnovers and adjust system operations to ensure
cl2 residuals > 0.2mg/l.
- Install 100 touch-read meters in existing and new home systems replacing non-touch
read meters/coordinate with utilities office.
- Install 10 new hydrants and repair broken hydrants within 72 hours.
- Update Water Contingency/Emergency Response Plan in February.
- Replace water mains as specified in capital budget.
- Provide precautionary notification to customer during main repair.
- Chlorinate all water main break repair parts and swab entire main repair.
- Calculate free and leakage in the system quarterly.
- Evaluate energy usage and pump efficiency of all pumping stations determine actual
cost per pressure zone quarterly.
- Evaluate system pressures and pump station pressures and look for water hammers as
possible cause of main breaks.
- Monitor soft starts at Chestnut pump station with portable pressure monitor to look for
pressure spikes monthly adjust soft starts as needed.
- Complete a hydraulic analysis of the distribution system.
Goal #2: Optimize the System operations
(Relates to City goals: Communication and To Improve Community Service
)
Objective: Maximize equipment life and performance, reduce electrical cost, and modify, if necessary,
each process to ensure best performance results.
Actions: - Read all equipment manuals to ensure equipment is operated correctly.
OK! so Councilmen Flock brings a news paper article to council from 2000 11 years ago.. he was on council then??? Why did it take 11 years from him (his ward) to push the city to replace the water line.. yes until rusty water issues.hmmmmmm pro active Andy! 11 years of not voting for a budget that could of included Elm st :)
Hey 4:09...How about just sticking with the facts...which is that Flock did not vote for a budget that did not include Elm St repairs. I think Mr Flock has just woken up a lot quicker than anyone else on council as to how things are actually done (or not) around here. He is only one vote (too bad he can't get any support) but he votes his conscience for the betterment of his ward and the city. Why don't you start bashing Term...or everyone else for not catching that glaring error from eleven years ago too? Have you stood up in a council meeting (recently or a while ago) with anything worthwhile to say? In other words...I'll take a councilman that has finally figured things out over one that will never figure it out any day.
ONE or even TWO councilmen can't get things passed thru council FOUR is the magic number. That is one reason Councilman Hada went to the mat for ward councilman Fountain to retain his position in ward III in the last election. This man is in no condition to do his job on council. An example at the work session not one word about the subject was mentioned by him. He is there only to insure the vote of FOUR.
hmmmm ..........
Painesville shouldn't be in any business,period. The city is run by a much of morons at the top. [ask anyone of the citys indians.
I am in Flock's ward. He's been my councilman the whole eternity that I have lived here. Anyone who wants to slam him gets a pass from me. He's been useless. Let me say that again -- USELESS. He is just now starting to do his job somewhat, and I am grateful for that, since he continues to run for office. So if anyone wants to criticize his past performance, I'm with you. But right now, he is starting to do his job. Better late than never, I guess. There is a man I am trying to get to run in this ward. He is a business owner, which would be a good thing. I hope someone comes forward in this ward. If not, at least Flock is starting to work, as I said. And really, he's doing better than anyone else on the council. Everyone else just gives McMahon/Hada a pass. If we thought that Werner, DiNallo or Fodor were going to save us, we were sadly mistaken.
Term, talked to someone who was at the meeting. Did Ms.DiNallo claim this only affects 26 homes?
She did mentiom it only affected twenty some homes. At the time you could take it as uncaring for those people. I don't believe that was her intention only that we had to look at a bigger picture on how this legislation will affect all residents.
When I thought about it I thought it could have been explained better.
Everyone on council wants it fixed they just don't seem to know how.
Fix the water line(s)!
Sorry Term its about the 26 people the city provided new water lines to Lighthouse Point development at north and Elm St.School at the south end end its all about 26 people period
7bucks a month because they cant manage money? So lets give them more.
Lack of planning by the administration only proves they have no idea how to run a business. This crisis should not be on levied on the taxpayers. Why to let them mismange more money?
First and foremost, the age of the infrastructure in this city has been well known by all former/present/any new city officials. A study of age/line components should have been a mandate: which includes both water/sewer. H2O line pressure was not attended to until most recently. When the report was presented a few years ago, there was only "Whoa" what do we do. THAT ISSUE SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE BIGGEST WARNING TO THE INEFFICTIVE RULER CM.
Eroding water lines with "Rust" did not just happen this year. Back in 1994 we approached this city about the same problem on N. State Str. over and over again. Samples were presented, and Mr. Clair made a laughing assessment that these looked like Urine Specimens. 17 years ago showing a FLAG!! The water lines on N State were replaced and we have had no rust and we do have the Blue Rings. Some have been stolen but we and our Ins companies know that we have protective pressure. Newly paved streets such as Chester/Skinner - look at all the overlay for line breaks. 2000 a statement for line replacement on Elm Str - no resolution and way too many line breaks - more flags. I do know that other areas of this city dealt with these issues and more: but, as they live in the older areas they too have been ignored. Requested $$ numbers for the capital improve funds are met with no answers. Reason: the dollars are recorded for new, new, new. New is part of progress: but, if the base of a community is continually ignored - regardless of new - the community crumbles. Painesville has now become a decaying Entity.
Words of Financial responsibility/ill-responsibility have been spoken by the CM. Rita, you have known for way too long about aged infrastructure.
You have the unmitigated gaul and nerve to expect all of us to pay for your inept/uneducated alleviation process??
You have led this Council into the greatest Debt ever. We will not accept any fees to our Water Charges to get you out of your Administrative Failings: and they are tremendous. AMP disfuncial Ohio is your biggest FAILURE.
You tried a big cover-up to gain money in 2005, for your failures, and you will not do this again in 2011!!!!
Charterlady
Wow. Well said, Charterlady. I'm with you.
Post a Comment
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
<< Home