Wednesday, August 11, 2010

"STANGERS IN THE NIGHT"sinatra

Who are these strangers? Some have complained that this blog goes off the reservation with some of its posts? Well, I'd like to think that everyone is within six degrees of Council President Joe Hada. Here are two news stories from around the country that prove my theory.
First the President of the United States Of America, Barack Obama on Air Force One being lobbied by a Southern Ohio Democrat as to why his district needs 17 million dollars for a gas line funded by the American people so Meigs County can run their ill-fated AMP-Ohio coal plant on natural gas.[Wonder if anyone will suggest building the plant where an existing gas line already is?]
Then, in the Republican strong hold of Martinsville Virginia, that city's government is still trying to figure out their AMP-OHIO deal; and a quote by the City of Painesville's City Manager Rita McMahon makes headlines in their newspaper. [I wonder if they think we know anything more then they do?]
My point is that it seems wherever you go, Painesville is in the nation eye....
along with Painesville's officals singing "I did it my way."

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AMP shifts focus on Ohio plant

Sunday, April 18, 2010
By MICKEY POWELL - Bulletin Staff Writer

American Municipal Power (AMP), from which Martinsville buys wholesale electricity, still may build a power plant at an Ohio location where a similar project recently was discontinued.
Meanwhile, AMP member cities, including Martinsville, continue to try and find out how much money they owe toward the halted project.
Participants in the American Municipal Power Generating Station (AMPGS) project decided during a meeting April 7 to further examine a site in Meigs County, Ohio, to determine if it is suitable for construction of a plant using natural gas to produce electricity, according to an AMP release.
Martinsville Electric Department Superintendent Dennis Bowles was at that meeting in Columbus, Ohio, according to City Manager Clarence Monday. Bowles did not return phone calls for comment on the meeting.
In November, the coal-fired AMPGS project was discontinued because cost estimates from contractors came in too high.
That was one of three projects in which Martinsville City Council in February 2008 entered into agreements to participate in for 40 years.
The release states that if the Meigs County site is determined suitable for a natural gas-fired plant, construction would depend on whether economic and infrastructure incentives and tax abatements are received for the project.
AMP also had been considering a site in the Danville area for a natural gas-fired plant. The release indicates that site no longer will be considered if the Meigs County project receives the incentives and abatements.
As an alternative to that project, AMP is exploring options to “partner with a third party” or buy one of several other natural gas-fired power plants being developed in the region surrounding Meigs County, the release says.
A final decision on the Meigs County site is expected in early summer, the release adds.
Martinsville buys more than 30 percent of its wholesale power through AMP, an Ohio organization owned by its member cities. Those cities, which include Martinsville, then sell the power to customers of their electric departments.
City officials and consultants have said that by taking part in AMP projects, it could be cheaper for the city to buy power from projects that it has some control over than rely solely on the wholesale power market, which has been subject to price fluctuations.
Martinsville’s pro-rated share of the development costs of the ceased Meigs County project has been estimated at $2.08 million. Councilman Danny Turner has expressed fear that the actual amount could be much more.
City officials have said whatever Martinsville owes can be paid over a 10- to 15-year period through its costs for electricity bought through AMP.
Monday said AMP officials told AMPGS participants that “it could be 12 to 18, or even 24, months” before they find out how much they actually owe toward the development costs.
That is due to ongoing litigation between AMP and a contractor involved in the project, city officials have said.
“We don’t have a schedule yet” and do not know when a final cost will be determined, AMP Senior Communications Director Kent Carson said Friday.
Monday would not discuss information he received from the April 7 meeting. He said he understands AMP considers it to be “business confidential” and so it is not appropriate to release it publicly.
A memo that the Painesville City Council in Ohio received on April 12 from Painesville City Manager Rita McMahon regarding the April 7 meeting states that “the final determination of costs will be complicated by complex legal issues.”
Those issues include “the termination of supplier and contractor contracts and wrap-up of construction activities at the Meigs County site,” McMahon wrote in the memo.
AMPGS participants, the memo states, were told during the meeting that “no AMP member community will be invoiced for, or pay any of these costs, until a detailed accounting is completed, made available to the participants and reviewed by them.”
“This final determination is not expected for some time,” the memo adds.
McMahon did not return calls for comment on the memo, a copy of which was provided to the Martinsville Bulletin by Turner. He said he received his copy by e-mail from Sandy Buchanan, executive director of Ohio Citizens Action, a nonprofit, grassroots consumer advocacy organization.
Buchanan could not be reached for comment. Turner said the memo “didn’t have any confidential stamp on it.”
Painesville is a city of comparable population to Martinsville in northeast Ohio, near Cleveland. AMP’s web site says Painesville is a member of the organization.

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Obama hears case for AMP in Meigs


POMEROY — “Two weeks ago while US Congressman Charlie Wilson was flying aboard Air Force One with President Barack Obama, the topic of how to keep Meigs County as a viable site for American Municipal Power was a topic of conversation, according to Wilson.

AMP has said it’s considering redesigning the Letart Falls site into a natural gas-fired power plant. However, for all the advantages the site had as a coal-fired power plant, there is a major hitch in the plan to convert the design to natural gas – namely, no gas line. Wilson said he has asked for $17 million in federal funds to run a natural gas line to the proposed plant, putting it at the top of his list for appropriations in his 12-county district.

Wilson said he received a favorable response from President Obama about the situation and two days after the conversation aboard Air Force One received a phone call from US Secretary of Energy Steven Chu saying the $17 million will be the top appropriation from the US Department of Energy in an upcoming spending bill.”

— Beth Sergent, Pomeroy Daily Sentinel

25 Comments:

At August 12, 2010 at 3:13 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, So what is your point on this one?

 
At August 12, 2010 at 4:25 AM , Anonymous TERM>> said...

Just information, read todays News-Herald. The point is how much will it cost Painesville for Gorsuch,Prairie State Energy, and Meigs County AMPGS?
Just watch your "power factor". on your electric bill in the coming months.
Just who recommended these "take or pay" contracts to council?
Seems like very poor investments on our part?
Then again the warnings for the most part feel on deaf ears.

 
At August 12, 2010 at 5:53 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, read the newspaper comments.

I remember when O'bama promised that anyone wanting to burn more coal would go broke.

I guess he means what he says, even if it is 80+ small cities in Ohio! I sure am glad we elected him, NOT!

 
At August 12, 2010 at 9:35 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who in their right mind would agree to this take or pay contract?
Obama, Shabama someone is taking usfor a ride.
Not one person in Painesville would agree to purchase anything if they didn't know the final cost or atleast some idea of costs.

 
At August 12, 2010 at 10:27 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

"YES WE CAN"

HOW IS THAT WORKING OUT FOR YOU ?

 
At August 12, 2010 at 2:55 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

funny no Joe Hada know it all answers about this mess, guess he's clueless about all this?
I aways thought he was the citys expert on electric power?

 
At August 12, 2010 at 3:02 PM , Anonymous Kathy Sak said...

Okay so when asked during a council meeting, the city manager was telling the truth when she said she had not received a bill yet. My question is who on city council "shared" the city manager's memo to council with Buchanan, as this news report states. And on another note - aren't city manager memo's to council open record? A confidential stamp? What? We're talking about Painesville City Council here - not Homeland Security! Be adventurous - go to city hall and ask to see all memos passed between the city manager and council for the month of April.

 
At August 12, 2010 at 10:11 PM , Anonymous REW said...

Kathy....as curious as I might be as to how that memo got out....I really don't want to know the details because I wouldn't want the trickle of information to stop. And I think its a little disingenuous of her to claim that we haven't got a bill yet....so therefore we don't have a clue as to how much we might owe? My intelligence is feeling a little insulted here...just because I haven't gotten my electric bill for next month, or gas bill, or pretty much anything else I might have signed on for...doesn't mean I don't have an idea of how much it will probably be. And if the little burg of Martinsville can come up with numbers (correct or not) they are alot further ahead in the info department than we are...at least their leaders are willing to discuss it with their constituents. What is wrong with this local picture?

 
At August 13, 2010 at 2:07 PM , Anonymous Kathy Sak said...

Yes REW you are right. City council and the manager have an idea how much the bill will be.

 
At August 13, 2010 at 7:55 PM , Anonymous TERM said...

Well wwhen I posted this I was hoping some of you would get my point on this whole AMP energy mess.
I expected the blame to go to Obama, along tree huggers, but I think some of you "tea party" people missed the object of this post.
Socialism,socialism thats where this countrys headed under Obama. No more free markets, capitalism is being buried. These deals all went down even before Obama was a Senator. My point?
Amp is a not for profir business with almost 600 million dollars in assets. We sure know no municipality is a business running under a profit motive. Now AMP gets these communities together and calls them partners I will call them part of the "collective." What control does the collective have over many of the decisions AMP makes? How does AMP sell bonds to build whatever they decide to build. All loans are guarenteed by the backing of the collective.
Meigs County has cost over $200 million even though its shutdown who pays the expenses of $200 million dollars? The Collective.
What does AMP-OHIO lose?
Now dont tell me we're shareholders because shareholders can lose money, but not be responsible for the costs of the failure.
Ford Motors decides to build the Edsel II during development Ford realizes the project won't work. Do the send all shareholders a bill for $200.00 for the failed project? AMP does.
The secret of whats going to happen was revealed at a special council meeting, when the city manager stated the resident won't notice the increase in their monthly bill over these fines or costs. I guess you could hide a couple of million dollars in the electric fund over 10 to 15 years. I just won't let them.
Painesville could be out 2 million dollars and not even have a D-cell battery for their expense.
Maybe I'm wrong I'll listen.
Do you think any of these people would have signed a deal like this if it was with their personnal funds?

 
At August 13, 2010 at 9:52 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wrong Term. She said nobody would notice the increase after they do all kinds of energy efficient improvements in their homes. What those shady people (Hada, McMahon, etc.) were doing is hiding the facts by saying that once we learn how to conserve energy in our homes, with the help of some company that was invited into the mix, then we wouldn't notice much of an increase. More horrible double-talking and evasive maneuvers by these people to pull the wool over our eyes. These people are unbelievable. And STILL nobody on council stands up and cries foul, or speaks in plain english to the people to explain to them how they just got B.S'd and screwed again.
The people of Painesville need to rise up. It is just so unbelievable what these people keep doing and how they keep getting away with it. And McMahon just keeps getting awards for her wonderful service.

 
At August 14, 2010 at 8:28 AM , Anonymous TERM>> said...

There usually are only three people in the room that even have a clue about whats going on with AMP-OHIO Rita McMahon, Joe Hada, and Andrew Flock. DiNallo along with Fodor are still in the learning stage of this mess. Werner is clueless, Hach and Fountain could care less and take their marching orders from Joe Hada.
Your right this deal is going to cost Painesville a ton of money and the three people I mention above know it.
Only Flock had the common sense to listen to people and get both the pros and cons of this deal.
I believe he was the only one presently on council to vote against Meigs County AMPGS
Was it coal? Was it Obama? was it the environment?
No, what concerned him most was the "take or pay" financing of this contract.
All the risk is with the communities.
Honestly what do 7 part time members of council really know about a 50 year, billion dollar project like this one? The city Manager "Recommended" this deal where did she aquire the expertess on an electric project such as this one?
I am presently in discusions with an attorney to see how I would word a charter change that the people would have to vote yes or no on a project of this size.
The charter needs some changes anyway. To much power to one person.
An example; A councilperson would like to discuss an issue with the Police Chief, by charter the city manager must be present at that meeting. I bet you really get straight answers then?

 
At August 14, 2010 at 8:59 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

When someone wants as much power as McMahon wanted and received, then that person needs to be immediately under suspicion. Why would someone who was honest and upfront need all that power? And anyone who let it happen (all of council?) needs to get out, too.

Maybe Flock questions a few things, but a little questioning and a "no" vote does not constitute saving us from anything. And I think the learning curve for DiNallo and Fodor is over. They had better get with it very quickly. They already let the bogus landfill power deal with AMP go through. Fountain and Hach are just yes people to McMahon and Hada, and Werner is useless.

We need to stop them from getting into another deal with AMP. We need to take our punishment for McMahon's stupidity in getting us into these deals. As it concerns this, that means pay them the millions that we owe them. Then we MUST not enter into any more deals with AMP. That's going to take a little more than a little questioning from Flock and a yes vote from DiNallo and Fodor.

I have no sympathy with McMahon that she didn't know exactly what kind of unbelievable mess she got us in. There were enough citizens telling them all what a big mistake investing in a coal plant was, let alone a "take or pay" deal would be.

I wish you best of luck on the charter changes. Thanks for taking the initiative. Hope it works out. Then we need to get rid of McMahon and her dangerous little followers while we still have a city left to fight for.

 
At August 14, 2010 at 9:17 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all of those who complain about this blog getting too far afield....this whole mess should be a good example of how national and world affairs can impact one small community in a big way...now AND in the future. It's one thing to have a party alliance and another to use some common sense when making important decisions. This deal, in the present economy, has the potential to permanently break Painesville and other member communities. It wasn't so long ago that P'ville lost a big chunk on investments but was able to weather that storm because the economy (both local and national) wasn't in the toilet. Good decisions grounded in sound thinking are imperative now....And to 9:52...you are absolutely right in saying this is alot of smoke and mirrors so that we citizens can have the privilege of paying for someone else's mistake. Not only do we get to pay for a mistake, but we get to pay for the energy savings program to help pay for the mistake. Bring on that charter amendment petition Term, and tell me where to pick up some "Murhpy' signs for my yard.

 
At August 15, 2010 at 8:51 AM , Anonymous TERM>> said...

Sometimes in life as much as you want someone in your life, its better to cut ties and move forward.
Painesville should give some serious thought to that when it comes to AMP-OHIO.
The lastest news from our friends in Columbus?
Development costs towards a third AMP-OHIO project in which Painesville is involved in has risen by 41 percent.
I recently learned that the estimated cost of the project, which included hydroelectric dams along the Ohio River, has risen from $701 million to $989 million.
As they say "Might be time to cut bait."

 
At August 15, 2010 at 10:30 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Somebody needs to be investigating AMP-OHIO.

 
At August 16, 2010 at 5:01 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Village of Yellow Springs, Ohio is a Gorsuch Plant participating member.
Here is an article in the YSNews.com that tries to explain the decision that council will make regarding the AMP mitigation project.

Council agrees to smart plant

By Lauren Heaton
Published: July 29, 2010

http://ysnews.com/news/2010/07/council-agrees-to-smart-plant

Interesting quote made by Eric Lloyd, director of marketing at AMP.

“We could actually purchase power cheaper than what we would have paid to upgrade and keep running the [Gorsuch] plant,” he said.

 
At August 19, 2010 at 9:24 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another city council must decide.......

A new set of numbers for the fine, or participate, or worst-case scenario....

Columbiana council split on EPA? fine mandate

....As a past recipient of power from the plant, the city is facing fines as well, Myers noted, but participation in the energy-savings plan could mitigate the fines.

Myers said the city would be fined $1.34 per megawatt hour for three years if it rejects the plan or can pay $1.50 per megawatt hour if it participates in the three-year plan. He estimated the cost of accepting the plan at $290,000 and the cost of accepting the fine at $259,000.

However, he noted the fine could increase unless AMP representatives can convince enough communities that were not receiving power from Gorsuch to participate. As a worst-case scenario, the city could face an EPA fine of $415,000.

If the city were to participate, Myers said it would receive a three-year guarantee that it would save money on electricity. The guarantee includes a refund of 70 percent of the actual savings compared to the stated estimated savings if the second figure is lower than the first.....

http://www.salemnews.net/page/content.detail/id/533474/Columbiana-council-split-on-EPA-fine-mandate.html?nav=5007

 
At August 20, 2010 at 10:30 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just can't wait to hear how Painesville officals will sell this?
If a city wasn't receiving power from Gorsuch why would they even think to participate?
Painesville should sue AMP-OHIO they were paid to operate the plant.

 
At August 20, 2010 at 3:38 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

All I know is that we MUST NOT get into any more deals with AMO-OHIO -- EVER.

I think AMP needs to be investigated. I think Painesville officials need to be investigated for this and many other reasons. And then we need to get them out of office before they do anything else detrimental to this city.

Is there even one AMP deal that our city leaders got us into that hasn't been a complete disaster? And let us not forget the "pretend" landfill deal they recently got us into with AMP where we pay them thousands of dollars to pretend that we have a green energy source, even though it's only enough to power one house. As far as I'm concerned, everyone who voted yes for that botched-up idea and deal needs to go, too. Nobody has really paid attention to that because when you compare it to the hundreds of thousands (or millions) that we usually lose on our deals with AMP, it is small potatoes. It IS thousands of dollars, nevertheless.

Isn't somebody supposed to be watching over entities like AMP-OHIO? Where in the world are THEY?

We just need to pay them whatever we cannot get out of paying them and take our lumps. We must not get into any more deals with AMP, no matter what kind of incentives and garbage and threats of owing more they throw at us. Let's end our dealings with them while we still have a city that is financially viable, IF it still is. You just never know with the lack of truth and the absence of complete information from McMahon and Hada.

 
At August 20, 2010 at 3:41 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way, how many bad deals ARE we on the line for with AMP? If you count the landfill deal, is it four?

 
At August 24, 2010 at 9:04 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

AMP moving forward with Meigs Co. plant

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Nine months after American Municipal Power announced its coal-fired power plant based in Meigs County, Ohio, was being dropped, the company officially announced the rebirth of the project on Monday.


Read more:
http://www.mydailyregister.com/view/full_story/9252946/article-AMP-moving-forward-with-Meigs-Co--plant?instance=secondary_news_left_column

The link is so long it may not work. If that is the case, go to www.mydailyregister.com and "today" it is on the front page.

 
At August 25, 2010 at 4:14 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

[Martinsville] Council gets AMP briefing

Wednesday, August 25, 2010

Marc Gerken, spoke to Martinsville city council and city manager 8/24.
They're going to be saving millions of dollars purchasing power.

"AMP officials on Tuesday estimated Martinsville’s share of the development costs toward AMPGS at $1.7 million. That is down from the original estimate of $2.08 million."

Take a look at the article:

http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com/article.cfm?ID=24999

 
At August 26, 2010 at 4:41 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

AMP options detailed
Consultants to help assess Ohio project

Thursday, August 26, 2010

http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com/article.cfm?ID=25014

 
At August 26, 2010 at 8:55 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

So according to the News-Herald Rita voted to move forward with this Meigs plant. Was council consulted? Why,no comment? She must be "Living on a Prayer".
She is in no position to vote yes on this, Amp must feel like it's stealing candy from a baby.

 

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