"BALL OF CONFUSION" temptatations
I have never been so ashamed of being a resident of Painesville as I am tonight. Some may disagree with me but that doesn't change how I feel. Councilman Flock, who also attended the zoning meeting, said he also is embarrassed. I watched a young couple plead their case about wanting to move into a house on Condon Court; which was purchased from HUD and still listed with that agency as residential property. In defense of the city, the assistant city law director, Jim Lyons, explained to the BZA how they could navigate this couple's problem to at least have the end result of being in their newly purchased home TONIGHT.
The BZA Board wanted no part of this. Although they all proclaimed their desire to help this couple, they voted not to get involved in the situation after it was explained to them how they could resolve the issue. The four members that were there tonight will go home to their comfortable beds, and should get up tomorrow morning and resign their respective positions on the board. If you can't make the tough decisions, don't get involved in city government. First off, I have to ask "out of what mind do these stupid ignorant ordinances escape from?". Has anyone but me noticed all the available commercial property available in the city...and what business is looking at this property on Condon Court which has been a home/residence since it was built?
Instead of a house being inhabited by a young couple with two children, chances are this will become an another neglected, rat-infested property in the city of Pain.
The city council, starting Monday, should amend some of these zoning variances and take these decisions away from the city manager. I don't know the legal reasons why a city can legislate ordinances like they do, and what is the reason behind these ordinances? A good example is my home that has residential property on three sides of it, yet if God forbid, lightening strikes my house tonight and it burns to the ground, I will not be allowed to rebuild on this site because of an ordinance similar to this. When my grandfather built my home, it was in a residential area and if it should ever burn to the ground I will rebuild it if I have to go to the Supreme Court.
We had an opportunity to show people wanting to move to Painesville we would bend over backwards to accomodate them; but four clowns on the BZA wanted to play Matlock. The Zoning Board had a chance to think outside the box and do a fine thing and instead they totally dropped the ball. If they are upset, they know where to find me. I sincerely hope this family finds a community that will embrace them.
A close friend suggested I wait until morning before posting a comment so I would have a chance to cool down....that's not going to happen. We lost four good people tonight that would have been an asset to Painesville.
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ANY CITIZENS INTERESTED IN THE CONTINUING DRAMA OF THE RESIDENTS VS THE ZONING BOARD...TUNE IN TO CHANNEL 5 BETWEEN 5:40 and 5:50 TONIGHT, JULY 20TH.
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posted by terminator1 @ 7:17 PM
40 Comments
40 Comments:
I along with many of my neighbors are sick and tired of the shabby way this city is run.
My wife agrees with you this whole experiment is to provide a good living to people here in charge of the city and its schools.
Thanks for saying and printing what alot of us think behind close doors. I guess it will take a total collapse to wake some up.
I am outraged that the Zoning Board refused to find a solution for a family that wants to move INTO Painesville. Does the City Manager hope they are willing to wait until her infamous housing development in the swamp is complete...or is the leadership so far out of touch with real people that they cannot or will not find solutions to a very simple problem? (Thank you Asst. Law Director for trying though) I looked up the property in question.....just to verify things before writing this post. Its there in black and white on the Lake County Auditor's site....property owned by HUD and classed as RESIDENTIAL. This is as of tonight and the auditor's site is updated every day. Can this city really afford to take a hard-nosed stance on a small property tucked away next to St Mary's property? The zoning board could have used some simple common sense and waved their magic administrative wand for a variance. This is a real black eye for this city...our narrow-thinking leaders have hurt some real people. I hope its not too late for someone in the administration to fix this in a real hurry.
Checked the auditor's site again and noticed the new disclaimer they have about checking with local entities about zoning laws. That may have been there before but I don't recall seeing it. CYA?
Probably someone who has an "in" with the City wants that property for something else, want to bet? Or it's included in somebody's long range plan that we don't know about.
Let's watch who snaps it up when this poor couple has to dump it.
Term: is it any wonder that we are getting these kind of results out of the BZA. These people have been hand picked by Council with a large chunk of input from Rita. This board will not make a decision without clearing it with the powers to be. They have the same mind set as Joe (Hada'nough) and Rita and we wonder why this town doesnt move forward and is slowly dying on the vine. If we dont wake up pretty soon and replace this micro managing City Manager and Council President, along with Dr. Hanlon, Painesville will become another Ashtabula City.
The Zoning Board
Who are the members on the zoning board? Names, I want names!
First off let me say I broke my own rule last night. Never start typing on this site when your upset. I apoligize for calling the BZA board Matlock, and clowns. I was upset and is unexcusable.
Doug Lewis, Andy Flock, along with Jim Lyons I believed wanted to solve this last night.
To blame the zoning board on my part was wrong they are there to make sure the ordinances are followed.
Was I upset that the people counldn't move in? Yes. Now the rest of the story. Doug Lewis suggested that they go in front of the BZA to get the ball rolling. Just so you know it costs $100.00 to get a hearing. They paid the money went to the hearing to only hear the board members vote that they didn't want to be involved with the issue? This is what Ali would call a "rope a dope." I pay for a hearing and you vote not to hear this hearing?
Also people telling other people "My heart goes out to you and feel bad about your situation, but theres nothing we can do." Yes you could if you would have been listening. I had the idea that at least two people had made up their minds in advance, one seemed bored and was almost laying in their seat along with another who I have no idea what they were thinking?
Someone on one of the other posts ask me why I find only fault with the city manager, along with WWAD?
What I wish the city manager had done was go to the hearing and told the couple this all must be a paperwork scafu and we'll straighten it all out. In the mean time put your belonging in your new home and I will get your utilities turned on as soon as possible and welcome to your new home Painesville. To simple and it would create more good will then 100 flower pots and trees. If you think she couldn't do this why not ? Do you think you could find four councilpeople what would fire her for this? I think if there seems to be a weakness with the city manager is in people skills and she has not learned in her tenure here that in the end its about serving the the people.
I will try to get minuts of the BZA meeting for the last year to show you how they seem to contradict themselves. Last night a lady was told by city ordinance she knew she had to construct a garage when she purchased the home. Yet three moths ago they let another lady tear down her garage and replace it with a shed. Now why was the first lady told she must have a garage and the other lady told a shed was sufficent?
To another comment about someone wanting that property. I don't think so. A very prominent resident suggested with these ordinances make little sense but the city has aquired control of that property.
Tony Torre purchased property that was a home and fell out of code. and reverted to commercially zoned property. Well he builds a large garage and at the same time the city tells him his zoning doesn't fit to sell automobiles? Now who has control of Tony's property? Along with that property on Condon Ct?
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Does this city have a heart? I have to ask because I know now it lacks common sense.
Term, instead of Ball of Confusion for the title maybe
Listen to your heart by Roxett would have been a better choice?
Can't wait to hear how the cheer leaders along with the movers and shakers defend this.
Cances are you won't hear a pep.
Did Riverside change its mascot from the Beavers to the River Hawks?
So, the city acquires control of these properties - for what? That's what I mean, there is some long term plan in somebody's head that we don't know about. Perhaps they want to put a Mexican shopping mall on Condon Court. Cleveland's got Asia Plaza, maybe Painesville is planning Mega MexiMart.
Where was council? Where was the council president? Our city manager is not a leader shes an administrator she probably has no use for residents other then a source of income for running her "business" The city council should insist that they take this issue and correct it. Just might be theres nothing they can or will do,they also feel bad.
We lost four good people, along with charging them $100 bucks to get lost. What a city.
5:35 The city doesn't want to aquire the property or has a secret agenda on the property only to have the final say. control.
As you can see who had the final say?
The people on the zoning board do they realize the word appeal is in there title? Look up what the word means, Hada's bunch strike again!
I bet they are bluffing the city and will have a family of 15 in there $25,000 house with in a year.. If they get this they sould live there for at least a couple of years..Just think $100 a person a month Times 15 Hmmmm $1,500 a month.. smart people from Perry Ohio
So to fool the city they sold their house in Perry,and now have their belongs in storage and living with in-laws what scamers!
I checked
You checked them out and that is what they are doing ?
From TV 5 web-site
By: Joe Pagonakis
PAINESVILLE, Ohio - Like many families, Jeff Gatchel and his wife have been stuggling in this economy. Jeff thought downsizing to a more modest home would help his family financially.
Jeff decided to contact the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, or HUD in his search to find a more affordable home.
HUD and Jeff's real estate agent found a home in the city of Painesville for right around $24,000. Jeff sold his former home in Perry Township, and was on schedule to move out on time. Jeff said the real estate transaction seemed to be going smoothly, that is until he tried turn on the utilities at his new house.
The city of Painesville denied the Gatchel family an occupancy permit, after Jeff was stunned to learn that the home was zoned for commercial use only. With their old home already occupied by the new buyer, Jeff and his family were basically left homeless.
Jeff contacted 5 On Your Side Troubleshooter Joe Pagonakis, and Joe went to Painesville city hall to talk to the city manager's office. Painesville officials told News Channel5 that the home the Gatchel's purchased had been vacant for more than a year, and according to the city charter, a home sitting longer than a year is automatically re-zoned commercial use only.
Painesville city leaders said the city contacted HUD about the change in the homes zoning status, but did not renew its residential zoning. The listing for the home was also incorrect in reflecting the change in the homes zoning status, something Jeff's real estate agent didn't catch before the sale.
Because of NewsChannel 5's effort in this case, the city of Painesville is now working with HUD to extend the Gatchel's contract on the home. At the same time, the Painesville city manager is hoping to work with the city planning commission to change the homes zoning to residential.
Because of a growing number of home foreclosures, houses are sitting idle longer, and may accure a number of assesments, code violations and potential zoning issues.
Buyers should do their own homework when buying foreclosed homes. Even though you may be working with HUD or real estate agent, it's important that you contact city hall to check and make sure the house is free legal issues.
A list of available local HUD homes can found on the HUD website. portal.hud.gov/portal/page/portal/HUD
I do not believe these people are running afraud against the city. Not all property in Painesville will revert to commercial property just the ones that have been rezoned. Why the reasoning for this by the city seemed very weak in my eyes.
Why are you suspiscious?
This is totally wrong, there is no way the city should back down on this issue.
If this family wants recourse it should be from the realtor and HUD.
The minute the city backs off on this they will be setting precedent and opening the doors for all kind of problems. Next, someone buys a storefront and decides to move in, the city has already set precedent that is OK.
Someone said on here the property has no driveway, where are they going to park? the front lawn?, that is even more trouble, either they get cited or ignored. If they are ignored now try to enforce that elsewhere in the city, if they get cited the city is the bad guy again.
Although some of you don't like it there are reasons zoning areas are set up in the first place, commercial doesn't mix with residential, residential doesn't mix with industrial and so on, When you mix them all you get are future complaints and problems.
If they give in how fast do you think some of our slum lords will pick up on this and start buying up and renting as apartments all kind of commercial buildings in the city?
The one thing that differentiates building uses are zoning, without enforcing that you end up with chaos like many of our neighborhoods already have.
If the city gives in on this I will file a lawsuit for everyone else that has fallen under this charter rule and had to comply.
To 4:47 and 4:49....We're not talking about a commercial property that fell through the cracks, we're talking about a HOME, a residential property that has always been residential. Do you mean to tell me that a private landowner that is struggling just like the rest of us in this never-ending recession can have a little zoning board DICTATE to me what I can or cannot do with my property? Zoning is for safety and appearence...and yes, land use to a point. What if a homeowner dies and the estate can't sell the property for over a year? Should they be penalized? What about if someone's home is on the edge of an industrial or commercial area...if their house is distroyed or left vacant due to illness or other financial reversal....the zoning board should be allowed to tell them or their heirs...."Too bad...". The babble about setting a precedent is just that...why do you people think they have these hearings on a case by case basis? (and the city makes money on each hearing too). And finally....the city has already set the precedent of selectively enforcing our local ordinances...so now they're going to take a stand on a little property tucked away next to St. Mary's? Give me a break!
The blind adherence to rules just for rules' sake is narrow-minded and totally omits the human element. Even a criminal is allowed mitigating circumstances when sentenced. This isn't the first bad law/ordinance to be on someone's books...so lets revise it so there aren't any unintended consequences. Come on Rita...step up and make this right. Please don't give me any more about how this was not of your doing and passing the buck onto a previous council...the problem is TODAY and you are supposed to be the city manager. So manage already.
My family and me moved here two years ago in similar curcumstances, modest home, modest jobs, thought it would be a smart move. Worst mistake I ever made and no way to fix it anytime soon. That couple should count their blessings!
To Alice,
Zoning is for land use, period. Ordinances are for safety and appearance.
Zoning is what keeps someone from tearing down the house next to you and building a Gas Station.
Zoning is what keeps your neighbor from opening a kennel and boarding 50 dogs, next door to you.
As a City we should NOT start ignoring zoning.
Although once in a while zoning may seem unfair it is what protects the value and integrity of our properties values.
Zoning is what kept a guy from building a big office building right on Mentor Ave years ago in the middle of all the beautiful residences (yes he bought a residential and wanted to tear it down and plop an office building right there. No one screamed about sticking to zoning then!
Zoning may be the only thing that keeps low income apartments out of where the Steele mansion is when it gets torn down.
Zoning is what keeps someone from opening an adult video store next to your church.
If you believe for one minute there is not a lawyer or landlord out there who will jump on the City setting a precedent you are being foolish.
This house is on the end of a dead end court, the court is not a city roadway, the city does no work on this court, the house sits next to another house, a very nice house, the guy that owns that house has no problem having someone live next door he likes the people that have bought the end house and wants them to move in, the city needs to look at this house there is no way it can be used for anything but a home, and it does have a small driveway, let these people move in.
HUD web sites do say that anyone that buys a propertie from HUD should check Zoning before they do.
What a sorry state Painesvilles in. I watched ALL of the council meeting last night and it proves what I have always thought. What an inept bunch of leaders we have. They couldn't make an argument to save their lives. Joe Gurley what factory will build next to church property? Joe Hada you proved beyond a doubt you and only you will decide what council wil do.
Then when the TV reporter shows up everyone hides! That shows the backbone you all have.
Maybe this is a blessing in disguise to that family? I moved here almost 3 years ago and to say I am disatisfied would be an understatement. T%he roads are terrible, the schools suck,I have to leave town to buy everyday items that any town this size should have an establishment for.
I wish I had been told you can't move in to town when I did. Count your blessings Mr&Mrs. Gatchel Someone saved you from alot of PAIN.
8:03 You make some very valid points.Isn't that the reason you have a zoning appeal board? Isn't that what a request is . The house has been a home for atleast eighty years now it can't be because it has been empty for a year The property becomes non-conforming and goes back to commercial use only but that wasn't what it was when the house was built?
Asper Park was rezoned to residential over two years ago should that property where no homes are presently built on go back to the previous zoning?
I am gathering facts to show you how many precedents the city has set in the past and there are some good ones.
This Condon Ct. situation seems to be borne to just being stubborn on the citys end.
Low and behold I willing to bet, 5 will get you ten are "Famous" building code enforcer is involved with this somehow?
Noway Nowell
This is 8:03, I would have no problem REZONING that property residential, but that is not what the BZA is for. To rezone it the Planning Commission makes that recommendation to council and they must approve it.
The BZA is more for "I want to build a garage but have 1 foot not enough buffer space, can I still build it?"
"I want to build a deck but it will be 6 inches to close to my neighbors property line, can I do it?"
The BZA could approve it but that would not be the right solution. The property would still be commercial and if the house burned down, they could not rebuild a residence there without the same problems all over again. They want to build an outbuilding?, conform to "commercial" building requirements.
In this case Rita is totally correct in referring it to the planning commission and it is up to them, not the city manager, to make the reco to city council.
All of you can scream all you want, but Rita is doing the best and the right thing for these people. The bottom line is they screwed up, not the city, and if the city rezones this for them they owe a thank you to the city manager for doing it the right way.
8:03 Look at it this way. What if the zoning board had voted that the city made a hasty decision on rezoning this area commercial? The city should take it under review and in the mean time the family could stay in the home. Could they have done that? I believe they could have. That would have got the ball rolling in the right direction. Even the city manager agreed that maybe that was the wrong designation for that parcel.
What happened at council on Monday?
No info or blog?
I only wish this city was sending out 30 requests like the one above.
I got the impression watching the council meeting that no matter what Flock proposses Hada wants to kill it. It took him a couple of minutes Monday night before he must have realized , "that ain't such a bad idea" He sometimes speaks without knowing where he's headed?
9:39 with the council meeting on the city site that you can view anytime you want, you still want a recap?
Well both resolutions passed, along with the city manager showing a mission statement for what actions she wants the administration to take next year. Along with stating we will have to trim our budget to 2004 levels because of the drop in revenue expected in the near future.
AMP-OHIO will make a presentation concerning our role in the Gorsuch plant closing. Sorry we will not discuss Meigs Co. That special meeting is scheduled at city hall 6:00 pm August 2,2010.
Council had along discussion about zoning issues.
Finally I guess we won't have a safety levy this November. There was no mention about it.
Hada, Gurley and McMahon run this city and ANYTHING that happens here must go be approved by JaHada's hands first. JaHada shows Flock no support because unlike the others on council Flock refuses to kiss the ring!
Sorry, no love lost between those two.
Still nothing regarding a schoo; levy? Why is it a secret or are they afraid of the backlash?
If state cuts are the main reason to seek more funds?
Please don't expect the citizens to now fund you ESL programs and other worthless programs
Any truth to the rumor LeBron James is in the new Charlie Daniels video? Someone mentioned he plays second fiddle?
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