"SOUNDS OF SILENCE" simon & garfunkel
Well Mondays council meeting was an award night of sorts.
First AMP-OHIO issued a $2,000 scholarship to a Painesville student.
Then T&T was the official bread of Painesville with 20 family members attending the presentation.
Garbage invoices? Tony Torre questioned the practice and was told that this had something to do with an ordinance from 2007 or 2010? Along with Waste MisManagement correcting the $4.00 administration bill on the latest invoice. No one provided when and who signed the latest contract for this 3 year contract?City council seemed perfectly happy with it.
Allen Watson asked when the Shamrock Bridge would be open. The ribbon-cutting will take place August 5th. He also question the Windmill project in Perry? That question was then directed to our law director? Lot of hot air but no wind?
All legislation passed. The administration I believes thinks that the old hotel can be demolished with the $600,000 grant? Good luck with that.
Councilman Flock questioned AMP-Ohio's invoice policy and was told AMP-OHIO did that as a one time favor ? Again who works for who? The small incident in May at Prairie State caused over 2 million dollars in damages. ( ever notice 2 million is a number AMP loves to use?) Well damages will be covered by insurance, I guess we will see a rate increase shortly. The plant was back on line June 20th in the mean time Painesville paid for the unreceived power in those days along with having to purchase power to make up the difference. Maybe that's why the power plant operated for a time in June? Why no one but councilman Flock sees a problem here is beyond me. Councilman DeLeone even agreed AMP-OHIO's position. Just to give you an idea how serious this problem is becoming is that Bowling Green University will pay 17.6 million dollar more for power from 2010 thru 2021 for electric power. Granted that city receives 50% of it's power from Prairie State but this issue has to be addressed and soon.
Councilman Flock also questioned the administration about the red brick sidewalks on Veterans Park? He was told the project material cost's are $25,000 and labor is furnished by the public works department.
Trains at Heisley Park. It seems now our former Congressman Steve LaTorrette has entered the fray with a meeting to be scheduled soon.
Vacant Property and Building registration. Does anyone on council have a clue what this is supposed to do and how? Someone suggested checking how Fairport's policy works.
The new police chief and city engineer were introduced. I see promise here with both of them also our public works director is young and seems to be able to think "out of the box".
After seeing the audience I believed to keep my thoughts to myself if no one else seem concerned why should I be? I was told once if Tony Torre and I didn't complain everyone else in town is perfectly happy with how things are done. Maybe their right?
I will continue to report on the blog. but with what I hear and see the apathy in Painesville is overwhelming. You get what you deserve.
posted by terminator1 @ 9:07 AM
37 Comments
37 Comments:
I am sincerely sorry to hear that you don't think your voice matters. It does.
While I may have a completely different viewpoint than you do on some matters, I still respect and applaud your willingness to question the powers that be. It's something I do a lot also. I am, unfortunately, an inarticulate speaker or otherwise I would be haunting every council meeting I could attend, challenging these useless bureaucrats about every bad decision they make which, from what I can see, are legion.
I agree there's probably a lot of apathy at play here but I'm sure that for every person that's happy with the status quo, there are at least two or three others who aren't but feel powerless to organize to effect meaningful change.
Just because people aren't storming City hall with torches and pitchforks doesn't mean that the majority of the residents are okay with things. I don't believe that most reasonable people are indifferent to the deeply entrenched culture of corruption and incompetence we have going on here. I think that many are too busy working, raising families, and living their lives to notice a lot of these issues until it's a little too late. Others notice but feel they have no recourse because, except for possibly Andy Flock, there is no 'Everyman' representing the interests of the average homeowner. That isn't disinterest on the part of the other homeowners - that's just disorganization. I wish we could bring everyone together that's dissatisfied with how things are done so we could clean house once and for all. And maybe elect an actual mayor instead of a mere mouthpiece who exists at council's pleasure.
1:47 I guess I believe it takes more than one voice. Take AMP-OHIO why the administration as well most on council go to bat for them is inexcusable. That's our money that's being pissed away. I must be the only one wanting cheap electric power?
I do appreciate your comment.
PCLS FAILED YOU DESERVE IT! TERM THINKS THE NEW SUPER IS DOING A GREAT JOB!! FAILED AGAIN!
It does take more than one voice, you're right. I think we need to get the message out to the people who need to hear it - The average voter/homeowner who keeps getting trampled on every time this cesspool of a council meets to pat themselves on their collective backs for a job poorly done. We need to clean house of this this entire council with the possible exception of Andy Flock. We need to start electing and supporting candidates who understand that the college isn't the only solution and that sooner rather than later, they're going to bottom out on trying to collect increases from people who just don't have it. I would love to have some recall elections in the near future.
I have an extreme, let's call it a dislike, of the poorly managed power company in general and think that the council members and administrators who willingly collaborated with AMP on the Gorsuch debacle should be actively investigated by the State AG. Why anyone would trust AMP to even supply toilet paper after that disaster, let alone our city's power is well beyond my comprehension.
Andrew Flock? I went to some Andrew Flock meetings a few years back, and all he did was whine about how pooor whittle ol' him just couldn't do anything for the city because Mrs. Big Bad McMahon (former city council president)wouldn't whet him, po' whittle thing. And that went on for over two decades with a few of his adoring fans feeling oh so sorrrry for whittle ol' him. THAT'S how he has served on council and gotten away with doing nothing while Rome burned. And now Big Bad McMahon has gone, he's still useless. Flock needs to step down. He's been on council well over two decades, and if you have a problem, he'll take pictures of it, if he can, but that's all you'll get out of him. There will be no follow up and no help. And if you point out the fact that he does not do his job, and has not for decades, then he doesn't like you, and he won't even take his useless pictures. Doesn't matter if you're in his Ward, because there will be no help. Not even lip service to it. Let's hope that Flock has the decency not to run again, and that someone steps forward that will at least try to do their job. Even if it's one of Hada's picks, it couldn't be any worse. Useless either way, so it can't hurt to give someone else a try.
I don't want to disagree with you two, but I think having a mayor is just a bad bad idea. It creates a whole new political entity to deal with. Opportunities for corruption abound in that system. Our council, as it is, should be our representatives, giving orders to the manager. The system is sound as is. It just needs more citizens to take interest.
As for corruption in Painesville government, prove it, report it.
One thing about Andy Flock you either hate him or love him. 7:33 looking for you to challenge him in next years election... Nah, you just want to complain about him.
Corruption to strong a word. A council that for years relied to much on a city mangers wishes. Take electricity. back in 2007 who on council knew anything about power plants.? The city Manager sold council on Meigs County failed, Prairie State bad deal, $500,00 battery building with no battery, Windmills that now seem to be the law directors problem. Begs the question council knew nothing about electricity and was taking advice from a CM who didn't either. Professionals???
We need to get the pay for council changed and make it higher. I believe Hada and his gang kept it this low to keep others from running. If the pay was raised, maybe we would get more applicants.
One thing about Andy Flock you either hate him or love him. 7:33 looking for you to challenge him in next years election... Nah, you just want to complain about him.
I've said the same thing over and over about you. You should do the same and put your money where your mouth is too "mister I have an opinion but nothing else".
1:23
Because higher pay in government jobs often gives a more qualified candidate?
Look at the old Commissioners in Cuyahoga County to see how well that works.
People who are qualified are qualified, the pay would not be an issue. You either want to do the job or you don't.
Speaking for myself, there is no pay that would make me want the job.
1:23pm, we'd just be paying more for less. We'll still have the incompetency, but we'll be paying more for it. the ones we have now are getting paid too much as it is. And no deduction in pay when they are "excused" from a meeting. They can miss every meeting and council "excuses" them. I don't think corrupt is too harsh a word. It fits.
5:01 Everyone has opinion problem is where are your facts?
5:12/6:35 The way our city government is set-up council directs the administration unfortunately in the past it was the other way around. I wouldn't mind paying more if I got the results to make Painesville better.
Term,
This is 5;12 and I generally agree with your statement. If it makes the City better, I am all for it.
However, I believe I am correct in saying that Cleveland pays more than we do and they still have problems. Unfortunately higher pay does not always lead to better candidates or better results.
BTW, just a few days ago I was thinking about the way the Administration has run Council for years. I don't know how change could be made but it is time to look at the options.
501-I'm not the one with the problem. You're the one calling someone out to run against Flock yet you do the exact same thing. You armchair council, preach, whine. But you yourself will not run for a position and will continue to complain about everyone and everything yet do not a thing about it. Again, you should put your money where your mouth is.
Term 9:35. Blaming the fact that so many people are unhappy with Flock back on the constituents isn't going to cut it. Apparently you think you can cover for him by blaming someone else for not running against him? Sorry, not working. It doesn't have anything to do with anyone but him.
As far as paying the city council more, I think it may be a good idea. If the job was to be done properly, it is a lot of work. Maybe if the pay was higher, it might entice people to run other than Hadaites who want to keep the clique going. I think the pay at this level would deter some people to run because, as I said, if the job is done properly, it would be a lot of work.
As far as excusing former and current council members for not knowing enough about electricity, and thus allowing us to have gotten into the mess we are in... first of all, there is no excusing of Hada or any other council members, because if they were too stupid to see what a hell they were getting us into, the citizens were telling them and telling them all about it. Still they refused to listen, and got us into this mess. I'm still waiting for investigations. Does anyone know if there will be investigations...and not only of AMP, but McMahon, Hada, etc. What was in it for them to do all that fancy lip work with all the cover ups of information and all the misinformation they kept shoving down citizens throats to keep from telling us the truth about these deals? And even so, the citizens were still smart enough to know that we should not have gotten into these deals and told them repeatedly.
Does anyone know anything about any investigations?
3:22 preach and whine? How about presenting you with facts? Look Flock was the only one on council to even bother to listen to residents, hold town hall meetings and try's to answer ALL residents concern's.
6:07 An investigation? They don't even want to send a letter!
As far as council until we elect 4 like minded people to council nothing will change.
You just are never happy here are you? "4 like minded people to council" You bashed past council into the ground and now do the same with the others. The voters spoke and now you have to deal with it. Seems you are never going to be happy till one of your people get in, honestly I hope that never happens. Thankfully you declined at running also since you won't put your money where your mouth is either. Just continue to sit back, stir the pot and shoot your mouth off. That's the real way to accomplish something.
Term 5:13. As far as Flock is concerned, listening and acting interested, when he does, is a totally different thing than doing something about something. And don't blame it on the rest of council. Sure, that is a small part of the problem, but he is a master of using excuses, and there have been plenty of things he could have done about plenty of things, but manages to stay in office because of his excuses. You should just let this go, as usual. People want him out, and they have the right to feel that way.
Also, as far as AMP goes, not an investigation started by our city, because they are part of what needs to be investigated. But an investigation started by the Feds or someone. I'd really like to know what was in it for Hada, McMahon, etc., when the deals were so obviously flawed (to put it mildly) that the citizens knew it even with the half-truths and hiding of information that those two did.
9:33 Well how's Painesville last 25 years compare to other cities in the surroundings area? Should I be happy?
Yes the voters spoke and their getting what they deserve.
I have decided it's more important to just present the facts to those who want to hear them. That's only what I want to accomplish.
1:25 You can't do much when you are a minority. The rest of council is a SMALL part of the problem?
People want him out? Why doesn't anyone run against him? Which begs the question who in Ward I would you like?
I give you credit with your concerns over AMP but most in town believe it's an energy drink
Term 8:18. I recall you being unhappy with the fact that Hada had been on council for decades, but when it comes to your Honey Bunch, Flock, it seems to be okay with you. I could understand, maybe, if he had been doing a good job, but sadly, that is not the case. How long has Flock been in office? 25 or more years, isn't it? And when someone says they want him out, according to you, they need to either run against him, or know someone who might? It's been too long. I, too, hope he has the decency not to run again.
4:33 Honey Bunch? you don't know me to well do you? First I'm in love with the new superintendent now Flock.
Flock has been on council 19 years, sorry.
Is it irresponsible to ask who you would replace him with?
You know Flock doesn't need this B.S. and if a competent candidate stepped forward he probably would be fine with that.
What would be decent if you talked to him one on one instead of through this site.
In my eyes your one piece of work.
This is 4:33, and as far as I can tell, there are probably three people talking about Flock on this post, so I don't know which one you are calling a "piece of work," but I'll be happy to take that honor. I don't know how you could assume that I have not talked to him in person, and you are defending Flock being on council for 19 years, as if 19 years is so much better than 25, when you railed against Hada for being on council for too long? I'm just comparing your two attitudes for two different people. "Your" just sooooo touchy when it comes to Flock. You can say whatever you want about anyone else in office, past of present, but someone mentioned Flock, and you're jumping out of your skin.
Term 8:31 - You're trying to make some big distinction between Flock being on council for 19 years instead of 25? ("Flock has been on council 19 years, sorry.")And then you proceed to put people down for hoping he doesn't run again? And you're calling people a "piece of work?" This prompts me to add my two cents, as I also hope he doesn't run again and, I must say, you're the one who is looking like a piece-of-work.
1:10/7:00 The 19 year mention was only meant to set the record straight.
Again I consider Andy a friend, I watch constantly as many on council take positions against him that Andy's only purpose is to benefit the residents of Painesville. I guess you have to be there to see it? My "piece of work" comment was directed at the person who doesn't even have the decency to make public what Flock did to upset them. Do they even live in his ward?
I guess we won't see this until the streetscape is done, or Painesville electric rates go through the roof. Along with Painesville falling behind.
5:58 Maybe we sued the wrong guy yesterday? What's your point?
Term 8:13. You say your reason for calling people names is "because the person didn't even have the decency to make public what Flock did to upset them." You need to knock off the double-talk. People are simply saying that he does not do his job, and he has not for the almost two decades he has been in office, and they hope he has the decency not to run again. I think that is pretty clear.
Talk about a master of excuses, you got em when it comes to bowing out of being on council. Present the facts? As several others have pointed out...not always factual and often skewed, one sided and downright incorrect. Better to type away your problems than really make a difference huh?
3:10 How has he not done his job?
5:55 Not always factual? Explain
Term 8:41, this is 3:10.
1)You're sick in the head.
2)Just go kiss him on the lips already.
3:10n You know what you can kiss?
3:10 and a few others are just leftover JaHadaists that can't live without Joe running the show, along with Rita. Pay no attention to them let them come out of the closet and run against Flock.
10:20 Wish they would
This is 3:10 to Term 9:50:
No. What?
This is 3:10 again with a P.S.:
This has nothing to do with Hada. Anyone who doesn't know how bad they were for the city is a fool. This is just about Flock. Many people hope he will have the decency not to run again.
So, just not to lose my first question before this P.S. ...
No. What?
11:02 No what,I guess your going to have to figure that out on your own. Why are you avoiding the question I asked?
The sad thing, Term, is that you think you are winning something by keeping this thread going. But what you've shown here is that you are an abuser, and you look like you have mental health issues also.
2:10 I wonder that's a professional opinion? Thank-you for your concern. Now I'm the one who's nuts?
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