"GOTCHA" joan jett
The one subject that garners the most look in on this blog. is when the post concerns Painesville City Schools.
First I have to assume that not only residents are concerned but also teachers and other employee's of the district.
By late Monday evening people knew about the resignation of Principal Oden on this blog. as well as his replacement. The News-Herald I believe printed the story five days later.
From some of the comments left at the News-Herald comment site. It seems everyone involved knows we have a problem in the district yet at the same time everyone seems very vague on what the solution should be.
Last week on another post someone mentioned a "Gotcha" mentality by the administration and yet no one brought forth an example.
Someone mentioned to me in passing that if someone calls in with a sick day the administration will go out and shadow that person? I'm not saying that's a lie only it seems like a stretch. At least to me.
Our community budgets over 40 million dollars on education in this community every year. Yes some is Federal, State and also Local. Tell me as residents are we getting our money's worth?
Teachers and the system must be supported by the community not just levies but as parents, and members of the community that demand a great educational experience for the young people here.
What are teachers afraid of? What exactly is this "gotcha"?
What is with the musical chairs with staff? Is this the new norm?
We as a community must stand up for the building administrators as well as teachers, being overruled by Jackson St. if they have no desire to solve the problems. Leaving the building administrator and teachers disheartened.
Parents must first be made to realize that they no one else is responsible for what little Johnny, or Susan do. except THEM.
They act up and you have to come to school. To bad, if you might lose your job if you are always running to Heritage or Harvey to bad. who's making you make those trips? The teacher or your child?
If you can't control him/her how do you expect a teacher to? This school system isn't a glorified babysitting business.
How do you expect them to make it in the real world if they are constantly late, fighting, or just disruptive? Are you going to support them forever?
Teachers PLEASE grow some Kahuies. You do have the support of your union? If you don't change the leadership and officers of the union. Believe me if the community knew as a whole what some of you have to deal with daily . They would be 100% supportive behind you. {Remember the 40 million+]
It didn't get this bad overnight and it won't get fixed as fast either.
There something very wrong here and we better fix it fast. 50% grading policies and ignoring the problem won't solve it.
"I do the best with what I am presented with" or "It is what it is" we need better answers.
Please lets be frank and explain what's wrong.
posted by terminator1 @ 2:38 PM
27 Comments
27 Comments:
Teachers aren't the only ones that need to "grow some", classified union always gets hosed over as their union officials have been known to turn a blind eye or be in the BOA's pocket to get something in return. I know. I've been hosed by them. The past presidents have been pushovers as well as the current one.
Lend me your ear sometime and I can tell you some good ones.
It is true the administration on Jackson Street hires private investigators to follow staff for sick and personal days. Also, you can't do much discipline because no one has your back if the parent complains to the board you took recess away. As someone who works in the schools, our hands are tied and we are expendable. There are 100's of people waiting to take my job. Teaching is NOT what it used to be nor are the schools.
It all starts with the leader....Hanlon must go!!!
Thanks for the post, Term. I appreciate you bringing this issue to the public light. For fear of reprisals, I'll have to be vague when I try to explain the "gotcha" culture at PCLS. There has been past practice of "getting on the bad side" of a certain individual at the BOE. When you're on the list you don't come off.
Your comment re: sending out someone if a person calls in sick is not accurate. . . however, the BOE has been known to do such a thing if a person calls in a personal day. Nothing says, "I don't trust you," any more than sending out a PI when an employee takes a personal day.
I can't tell you how many times parents came in and cursed out a teacher. I mean cursed them out! Nothing happened to the parent. No cease and desist letters, no phone calls from BOE to tell them to stop and that their behavior was unacceptable. Rather the conversation turned toward the teacher with the focus on what the teacher did wrong to warrant such an outburst. It's very demoralizing. The children of these parents have come in and even told the teachers they can say or do whatever they want because their parents will come up to the school and "take care of things".
Or take the kids who brought weapons to school, have over 100 referrals, get into multiple fights, or attack staff members. In each of these examples these kids have been up for suspension or expulsion and in each of these cases central office overturned them because the teachers didn't meet the needs of the kids.
Or take central office's view that teachers aren't developing and delivering engaging lessons. . . otherwise test scores would go up! Here's where their logic is flawed. If the teachers are not supported in the above issues, the kids know this, act like heathens in the classroom and there are little or no consequences.
If you want more examples, I've got about 500. Just let me know and I'll keep them coming.
On another note, did you hear that Chestnut Elementary has a new principal? My experience with organizations is that when people, I mean good people leave, there is a problem with the culture in management. These people when to excellent districts! One quit without having a job lined up.
What does that say?
7:19 Who pays for this and how do they justify spending this money and what fund does it come out of? We have financial problems and we're hiring Mickey Spillanes?
9:21 Is it really that easy? Just asking.
4:30 Let it all. Let's the issues see the light of day. If you are threatened by a parent can't you do anything on your own as a private citizen to make sure it doesn't happen again?[ Just asking really this is not sarcasm] Does everything have to go though Jackson St?
What's seems to be missing is the parents don't
meet the needs of their kids.
You are right good people go to good places and good places keep good people.
I have to agree with the first post. Unfortunately, the classified staff are treated like second class citizens. Theirs jobs are just as important as any other. What would happen if Hanlon or Ward were out for a day? How about a week? And lets say there was no replacement for that time. NOTHING would happen. What if any of the following are out for a week with no replacement: custodian, translator, secretary, one-on-one aide. The consequences would range from a terrible looking school to a civil rights suit against the district. Classified are people too, number 1 and number 2!
As a person who has been there and done that. The above comments are very true. I know personally of one individual who was followed on their personal day. Followed around town then out of town. I was told by another employee there is a 50.00 bounty on the head of anyone not being where they were supposed to be. Not sure of the true facts on that one but the second half of that conversation came from a retired elementary principal.
10:55 Begs to ask what does the administration think your doing on personal day's?
Does it matter? They are personal days.
You get personal days? As in PAID PERSONAL DAYS? Are you kidding me?
Term,
Your tax money goes to pay these PI's. Just google PI prices. It's $50-$100 an hour. The district is spending $500-$800 a day to see if an employee who makes anywhere from $100-$350 a day is doing. PCLS is famous for stepping over dollars to pick up pennies.
As far as support goes, it's lacking. Take for instance the incident at the end of the year. A parent came into the building under the pretext of visiting a teacher. Instead, he went to the football meeting. He verbally and nearly physically confronted the football coach because he had an issue with the way the coach treated his son. Guess what happened to the parent? Zip, nothing, nada. Or take for example the student who played basketball and got into too much trouble in school. The coaches disciplined the girl by not letting her play. The dad came in and raised a stink and Mike OVERTURNED the decision for the girl to sit out a few games!!! Mind you, the rules were clearly established prior to the start of the season. Or how about the parent who comes into the main office and curses the administration and secretaries out in front of children and other parents. Guess what happened to that parent? Nothing. No cease and desist letters, no frank conversations from numbers 1 or 2. Nothing. The kids then come back to school and do whatever they want, because they know if their parents come up and raise he77 that NOTHING will happen except the teacher will be made a fool. One more example. If you recall a few years back, the admin on Jackson sided with the community and developed a dress policy that rivaled most parochial schools. Look how long that lasted. Once the administration started cracking down and suspending kids because they had 12 dress code referrals in a quarter, the Jackson crew started raising eyebrows. . . too many suspensions over there at that school!
Here's the solution, and it doesn't involve new administration. The central office needs to etch a firm, clear line in the concrete, communicate those expectations, and not deviate from that stance, even under threat of lawsuit (Ohio law already supports nearly all of the rules school boards adopt in regard to school discipline and consequences). Sure, the suspensions will skyrocket for a year or so (there up there already, so who cares), but after the good parents who back the school support the decisions and once the loud mouth crazy parents realize that NO ONE is going to listen to their foolishness, they'll stick a foot in their kids rear cuz they don't want them at home causing trouble.
Kathy,
Yes, those are PERSONAL DAYS! Much like most other professions (nursing, business, electricians, insurance) I just checked with my brothers and friends who are in these professions. They are all called other things like comp time, paid leave, vacation, etc. They all get them. That's too bad if you don't.
Yes, we get 3 personal days a year with a list of reasons you may only use them. You must give the reason you need the day and you'd better be where you said and doing what you said.
2:17 This seems nuts?
1:15...you are absolutely right.... I too work at the middle school, and all of those instances are right on...the bb player even had a letter letting her back on the team from the supt. She even told the coaches, "I got a letter", when they tried to enforce more discipline. Her Dad made a ridiculous scene in the office....cursing and yelling at people....and he WON. Doesn't matter that his daughter was in two fights, if your parents come in and raise holy hell...you win! More and more of our parents are finding this out, and it is bad....
As for personal days, 2:17 was right on...they better be on that list, and you can't really take them on a Friday or Monday in May or June or things could get dicey. I never take mine...they just roll into sick days at the end of the year if you dont use them....
I don't think it sounds nuts at all. It's a benefit, something that was probably negotiated and agreed upon by both sides. It is no different than my company gives us funeral days for family, but we are required to bring in something, obit, funeral card, etc, because over the years people decided it was OK to abuse the benefit and use it as a "day off".
I would bet if we knew the history of this person narrating these stories that they have gone head to head many times with the school Admin and their union has not backed them up because they were wrong. There is always two sides to a story, and making judgements when you have only heard one can be dangerous sometimes.
Sometimes when we write about teachers we all want to believe that somehow they are victims, well I don't believe that, in many cases they are just spoiled and now that they are being held to work rules in the last few years, similar to those that many of us have lived under for years, they
feel it is "unjust". When many of us work in factories, etc for $40 - $50 thousand a year why do they believ that they deserve to make twice that?
Sure, you teach my kid, I make your car that gets you there, or I make that pen that you use to make your livelyhood. Teachers are still just people, no better and no worse than the rest of us.
To 1:19pm - No I don’t get paid personal days. I’m a freelance writer so I only get paid when I write something and actually sell it. These days I haven’t written anything so I haven’t sold anything. I need a part time job and have been looking but no one will hire me. Getting back to the blog issue of the post - Okay - if the administration negotiated paid personal days with your union then the administration should stop playing games. It’s not really a personal day if you have to explain why you need the time, or take it only if it fits into the mold of what constitutes personal. Following employees around to see what they are doing on their sick day or negotiated personal day is a huge waste of taxpayer money, and it sends employee morale into the trashcan. It should stop. Local news media should be writing about this to expose it. And I agree completely with post 1:15 pm. Again, local media needs to be reporting about the way teachers are treated by their administration, their union, and by the public. I bet most people would be shocked to learn about what goes on in their public schools.
2:31 That's a very sad picture you paint. It will be a situation that will only esculate.
5:58/3:56 There must be a paper trail, or at least someone who has been in this situation?
I not only see this as a general waste of money, also something that seems unbelieveable.
3:56,
I totally get what you're saying about the story being biased, but the incidents listed above are facts. In fact, let me extrapolate it a step further. Good people are leaving that district in droves. Four principals at the middle school in four years. Two have left for greener pastures. Two teachers left this summer to get jobs in better districts. One teacher put in her resignation letter mid year without a job lined up because of the chaos. The high school principal left. The Treasurer left. Many teachers at the middle school have left to go to other schools.
I could see your point if it were one or two teachers, but ten? That's a culture problem in the district and that translates to lack of support.
If the principal at Harvey hadn't left, I think there would have been a lot more vacating the building.
The treasurer left because the HS principal left - and thank the lord for that!
3:56 is totally right. No biased stories here. I am a rule follower and a instructional leader. I'm just pointing out the lengths things go, and are tolerated. Never went head to he'd with any adm....just sick of the entitlement mentality and how it is catered to by those on Jefferson St. Obviously, the stories have been validated by a second person, so they are legit. I am just illuminating the facts...and they are not pretty. Again, no indicators met at the middle school...why? The 5% of knuckleheads get away with little or no consequences....they are the facts....
To all of you going back to work at PCLS I wish you a good and better year than the last. At the same time as much as I hate to say it ,it's like watching some of you going back into a war zone for another tour. Also I belive we can fix some of this, REALLY. Good-Luck TERM>>
Thanks, Term.
I appreciate your support. Any thoughts on helping solve the problem?
Yes, and I will put them out on the blog. very soon.
No employee should have to deal with what some of you are expected to deal with.
For starters the staff at Harvey must stand 100% behind the new principal. He seems like a stand-up person who won't throw you under a bus.
No one likes there dirty laundry out where everyone can see it and yet you would be surprised at the number of people who had no idea that this was going on.
Term - I couldn't agree more. The employees and the community need to get behind the new principal.
http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2012/08/23/news/doc503636bd806dd332265121.txt
Too bad we weren't among the school districts named in the NH as having new leadership!
By confronting at the meeting (or anywhere)the only thing you are going to is anger the Jefferson Street god.
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