"WHEN THE LIGHTS GO DOWN IN THE ..." journey
Thursday night's AMP - Ohio council meeting was more than a little bit contentious. AMP - Ohio has the best snake-oil salesman in the world. First, they get you to invest approximately 35 million dollars in a fifty year contract with a coal burning electric generating plant, cancelled the plant at a cost of roughly two million out of your pocket; turn around after cancelling the plant and tell you they have saved you millions by cancelling the plant they first talked you into buying into. AMP...Please don't poop on my head and then expect me to thank you for the hat.
I personally understand the city's venture into the Gorsuch plant in 1988. I even understand the city wanting into the Prairie View energy campus. Maybe not to the extent they finally exposed themselves to, but it was understandable. Which brings us to Meigs County the mother of all ponzi schemes. Am I upset that Painesville stands to lose around two million dollars on this venture that the residents will have to make up in their electric bills? Yes, but what really upset me were the people in the administration and the people on council that went straight ahead with this last project after numerous warnings from many concerned Painesville residents. The take-or-pay contract is a loser that no one would subject their personal finances to but the powers-that-be have had little regard for the city's [people's] money. People on council that voted for this can claim they had the best intentions for the residents of Painesville, but in reality took a "my way or the highway" approach. The four people I hold responsible for this: City Manager Rita McMahon, Councilman Joe Hada, Councilman Paul Hach, and Councilman Robert Fountain. The other 'yes' votes are no longer serving on council. I put most of the blame on Councilman Joe Hada, who ram-rodded this legislation through council. Lets assume for a minute that the loss is an even two million dollars. In a city with a population of 18,000 people that's a cost of $111.00 for every man, woman and child that lives in Painesville. That's the math I wish the city manager would have used, instead of telling us about the 10 to 14 million dollars of electricity we sell yearly.
Someone asked me today if I felt vindicated after all the time I have raised my concerns about this issue. I answered honestly that I wish I would have been proven wrong. I don't know what the next move should be....but a hasty step into a new contract with AMP-Ohio seems illogical to me. I would appreciate any plausible solution to the situation we are facing because I know ....at least I think I know....we do not have 2 million dollars sitting around doing nothing.
I will post the questions I asked the AMP-OHIO representatives at the meeting later this weekend.
posted by terminator1 @ 8:17 PM
28 Comments
28 Comments:
The answer is the four people mentioned above should resign, or removed from office How much money will Painesville. have to lose before the people realize Joe isn't a good old boy, but a very expensive boy to have around. I cannot figure out why anyone would get involved with Amp to the extent the city did.
Could any of this have anything to do with the cost of my electricity going threw the roof? 50% cheaper then who?
Recently I had a short conversation with a councilman from a city that had a power plant. I questioned him on the reasons to have utilities if they can't benefit the welfare of the city? He explained along with the profits from investments, the city is also allowed to take 5% of the profits from the departments and add it to the general fund? Wonder if we do this and where does it show up at. Must be one of the "other" in our budget?
Investigations. We need investigations. Start with AMP and then branch out to Painesville.
Question: If we are so willing to go on the line for 50 YEARS with these AMP - people - then why not put the millions into our own plant and expand or get something new going in addition to what we have instead of throwing it continuously down the toilet with THEM?
And I don't mean another landfill deal with AMP where we pay them thousands of dollars a year to power one house so we can PRETEND we are green in case the government comes looking.
Investigations. We need investigations. And we need to start getting these people out of office.
I am laughing about your poop statement, Term. ("Don't poop on my head and then expect me to thank you for the hat" referring to AMP.) Too bad it's so real, and too bad it's such a serious situation, huh? Thanks for your rundown on the situation as a whole and also your rundown and opinion on each of the deals. Much appreciated.
Term, this is a good time to thank you for continually putting yourself on the line for us by speaking out on these AMP deals. Thanks for trying so hard to try to stop the city leaders from doing them and for trying so hard to keep the citizens informed. Thanks also to the few other people who tried to stop these deals, too. Can you imagine what THEY would be doing if YOU were not doing what you are doing? We'd probably have a collapsed city by now.
Thanks for the kudo's. If you knew how many people have come up to me in the last couple of years and have told me how people on council and in the administration have called me a loon, [or worse] The only thing is maybe now the people on council won't play follow the leader so easily. I have watched these people operate for over 6 years and still have no clue what their goal is. Besides blowing 2 million dollars.
What you learn very quickly is that the only ones who stand up for the city along with the school system are former employees. Wasn't this the same person who wanted a levy fot the fire department? What happened. I know her and she blindly follows JaHada.
I only hope she runs for council, so I will be able to cast a vote against her and her agenda.
The thing that surprised me the most was the attitude of the AMP representantives. Here they are telling you that you will pay an $86,000 on one plant along with maybe 2.7 million on another project, with no apoligies or remorse to the city that's on the hook for all this money. I couldn't tell if it was arrogance, or rudness?
To 9:39: Yes, I've been shocked at MY electric bill also.
The Proposed Charter Amendment as written on the Lake County Election web site http://tiny.cc/stu88 is confusing to me. The proposed changes doesn't make any sense to me. I understand the second paragraph, but the first paragraph, I don't understand.
Everything was left on first readingat Mondays council meeting. Some good comments were made. I must have upset the CM when I suggested she put a fence around the "city Junkyard?"
Man is she getting touchy. She threatened to close down the recycling center? Don't forget to send the money back to the county.
It was good to here a comment from the younger generation concerning Painesville.
Yes I was at the meeting when people begged the administration and council not to do the Meigs County deal. There was no Monday morning quarterbacking on that issue. Just people on council who wanted their own way.
The Board of Education is hosting a public session to discuss the district's five year forecast this Wednesday, 10/20/201 at the high school. Details are on http://pcls.net/ .
"I will post the questions I asked the AMP-OHIO representatives at the meeting later this weekend."
Are you going to post their answers as well, because otherwise that's kind of useless to all of us.
I will post my questions and when the minutes of that meeting are passed I will post his answers.
Seems you've gone into the letter sending business instead of the blog business?
Your hands are all over it!
Here are the questions I asked at the special AMP council meeting. I will post the answers after the minutes of that meeting are released.
Questions for AMP-Ohio Meeting 10/14/2010
1. Who owns the patent for the “Power Span” technology? Is it owned by all members who participate in the Meigs County AMP – OHIO plant?
2. If Painesville walks away from the Meigs County Project would it be safe to assume that our liability to AMP – OHIO would fall between 1.5 million and 3.5 million dollars and what would be the way Painesville would be expected to pay this money and over what length of time?
3. Do you believe AMP – OHIO gave its municipal partners a fair estimate of the costs in building this plant, along with the higher than expected costs to build this in the economic climate we find ourselves in?
4. Did you and your representatives explain the risks of this “Take or Pay” contract to Painesville’s administration and council to the best of your abilities? I am asking: along with explaining all the plusses of this project, did you also explain the negative things that could happen?
5. Why was the Meigs plant first scheduled to operate 24/7 and now called back to a 7:00 am to 11:00 pm operation; along with what are your best estimates of what a KW of electricity would cost if and when the plant goes online, compared to a plant using coal? How can we trust these figures?
6. What has this venture cost AMP – OHIO so far at Meigs County and would it be a reasonable assumption that the location of the plant was chosen to be near the source of power (coal); and now that you want to switch to natural gas, you seem to expect taxpayers to extend a gas line to your plant for 17 million dollars. Why not build a plant at a location near a natural gas pipeline?
7. I have been told two figures of the cost of the Gorsuch plant fines as the residents of Painesville’s share. Approximately $4400.00 and later revised to $85,000.00; is either one of them accurate? If not, what is the approximate amount? Will Painesville be responsible for any mothballing or payment to demolish the plant?
8. Numerous times Ms. McMahon has told me during council meetings that we would not pay AMP – OHIO any money until we started to receive electricity from the Meigs plant. Is that a stretch of the imagination? Or if the plant is never constructed we won’t owe AMP – OHIO a dime? Which is it?
I understand there was no apogligy from the Amp representatives, do you think we might hear one from the members of council or the city manager for blowing this one?
Signs, signs, everywhere a sign.....
1:41 One question how long have you lived here? You will never hear a sound of making a mistake from any of them. The best you might get was "It seemed like a good idea at the time." and its wasn't then and isn't now.
Did they call you a loon or worse to your face!? Or behind your back? Behind your back means there is a snitch within council-someone NOT to confide in anymore.
Isnt the song by Journey -When the lights go down in the city - not out.
And why do you reply to some comments but not all?
Yes I realized that the moment you posted.
As far as comments, I post everyone I receive. I don't post profanity or highly personnel claims like they have been stealing money for years. I have had good friends tell me they have posted comments and they never show up? All I can tell you is make sure you fill in the box at the end of the comment. Sometimes it doesn't ask and you have to scroll down and fill it in. If the box at the top tells you your comment is saved,it saved, no box no comment.
Believe me I want all comments.
I understand missing posts, what I don't understand, (and maybe I wasn't clear enough)the post above asked for specifics as to being called names to your face and if there was a snitch within council?
Comment Please.
Not even a snitch on the street. Sometimes someone makes a statement to another not realizing that person also knows you.
As far as AMP-OHIO no one has ever said I was mistaken at a council meeting. Yet they mentioned I don't know what I'm talking about in private. If I'm wrong tell me in public.
Our council president "prouldly voted for Meigs County" now he's sitting on a very expensive mess.
It will be interesting to the people who care about Painesville. How JaHada handles this debacle with Amp he alone should take resposibility for it? Who will he throw under the bus this time? Rita, Bob, Abby, Paul? Maybe its time he "Mansup" and takes the hit? Na. By Rita its been nice knowing you.
To 5:12 am. So, you believe all you hear and take that as Gospel?
TERM said Not even a snitch on the street. Sometimes someone makes a statement to another not realizing that person also knows you.
I hope you know that goes both ways. When you talk or make comments to people, you don't know who is related to whom and therefore a foot in mouth might happen.
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