"PAPERBACK WRITER" beatles
Along with all this illegal immigration debate that was bubbled up in the last month the most interesting story to me has been "Let me see your papers?" I wonder if the Hitler family receives a royalty everytime this phrase is used?
Truth be told Everyone shows their "papers" everytime a policeman stops someone for a speeding infraction. License, Registration, Proof of Insurance, isn't that how it works? Showing your papers.
Go to your physician, attorney, they have their papers on the wall in their office.
Would they hire a teacher in Painesville without seeing his or her degrees? papers?
Apply for a job? Social Security card please, papers?
Go into a bar and if your under 25 chances are someone will want to see your papers. If they don't ask they can be arrested and put in jail if you are found to be under 21.
Walk into the airport, hospital, voting area everyone wants to see your papers, big deal.
This is an attempt to make people think its bad to have papers, yet we all have them and for good reason.
The only people offended are people who are without, fraudulent, or even stolen papers.
You have to wonder what "papers" an illegal has to show to enroll his child in school.
Quick reminder "COUNCIL MEETING MONDAY 05/17/10"
A few interesting topics; approval of 135 Townhouses east of Cobblestone on less than 30 acres of land? I hope everyone likes everyone.
What if that Jackson St. fire station is voted down?
Maybe that $100,000 deal with Grand River will look more "fiscally responsible?"
SCHOOL LEVY UPDATE:
According to a person in the superintendent's office, there was no action taken Saturday morning regarding when the proposed levy might be placed on the ballot.
posted by terminator1 @ 1:05 PM
35 Comments
35 Comments:
This is so true - and many companies are now checking your credit rating before hiring. It seems you can't do much of anything without producing identification. I think it was last year maybe, or the year before, while walking my dogs I found a drivers license. Came home, called police to come and get it. So when the officer arrived, he asked for MY drivers license. (?) So now, I'll just save myself the trouble; if I see a drivers license laying on the ground, I'll LEAVE it there!
The real question I have wondered about if all this "paper" checking had been in place on September 11,2001 would those 21 terrorist been able to board those planes?
Maybe the police officer wanted your I.D. if there was an reward?
Arizona’s new law essentially requiring police to demand “papers” from anyone they might believe to be undocumented sure looks like institutionalized racial profiling. But, state Rep. Frank Antenori claims that the legislation is benign. “[Police] just can’t pull somebody over,” he said. “They have to be pulled over for violating traffic laws.
They have to be called to investigate a crime or something along those lines to create the lawful contact. And then, they have to have reasonable suspicion.”
That didn’t happen in Phoenix, two days before the law was even signed, as a Latino trucker was pulled aside while weighing in at a roadside truck scale, handcuffed after producing his commercial driver’s license and Social Security card and hauled off to an immigration detention center. You see, he wasn’t carrying his birth certificate to prove he was born in Fresno, Calif.
Quick check: Term, Are you carrying your birth certificate right now?
12:17 Where can I/we find this story? I would like to see the story verified. Was he arrested for another crime? Two days before the law was passed the law doesn't go into affect until July?
Birth certificates are so easy to phony-baloney. That's why no one asks for them except schools. Just like this story about a trucker - phony-baloney.
Let me see your papers:
http://www.csindy.com/colorado/your-turn/Content?category=1064360
http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/markos-moulitas/94655-let-me-see-your-papers
Yeah, I think the story told by 12:17 sounds akin to a Veronica Dahlberg story and/or a typical made-up story for and by the illegals. You know, the "boo-hoo look-what-the-white-people-are-doing-to-us-now" story. The "feel sorry for us and grant our whole country amnesty, you big, bad white people" story. Kind of like the "we came here illegally and left our family behind, and now our families are separated, and it's all YOUR fault" story.
To "let me see your papers" I went to the web site you listed and read the COLUMN, not news, an opinion column, about this trucker. Under the column are comments from readers. The 4th comment reads something like no one asks to see a birth certificate unless the state ID is an obvious FAKE, as was the case of this trucker. The comment finishes with something like your column about this truck driver is what it is - under informed, one-sided, political bile. Sooo - go back to the web site you listed in your above post and read it again, including the comment section. We will hold class tomorrow on the differences between hard news stories and commentaries. Please plan to attend.
Obama's Aunt granted asylum. Gee how shocking is this. Could have seen this coming a mile away.
Let's see, asylum denied in 2004 and deported in 2004, refused to leave and continued to live in public housing in Boston. Will she stay in Boston, Chicago or DC now?
Another message sent to ILLEGAL immigrants. Welcome to come to America, Land where you are free to break the law.
I guess my job is now at a greater risk now because the next thing we can expect is that Affirmative Action will now probably include ILLEGAL immigrants.
Hey 12:37 AM, Do you also think the stories DWB (Driving while black) are made up stories too? The police treat brown and black people more harshly then white people. That is a fact!
Badger ,who was in charge in 2004? Obama I don't believe was in the senate yet? You should be surprise at what happened in 2004 not 2010.
1:48 Take it from a white guy, we sometimes are not treated "special" Some officers plan don't like anyone period.
We all have to show ID when questioned by law enforcement. If anyone were to say my name is John Doe, however I do not have any identification that proves that you can just take my word for it, how many times do you think this is accepted by law enforcment? Maybe these open border people should try it! Illegal aliens choose to brake our immigration laws, whether they are sneaking across our borders or decide to stay when their visa expires. Since they are able to break the immigration laws they now feel any law they do not agree with they should be able to ignore. When this does not happen they play the race card. The governor of Arizona did the right thing, more governor's need to step up and protect their state and citizens from illegal aliens. The illegal alien problem did not happen over night. Neither party wanted to stand up for U.S. citizens and look what it got us. I say us because we are the ones that are effected by the illegal aliens. The over crowding and cost in the schools, the crimes committed against U.S. citizens, all of the tax dollars being given to them through entitlements, the jobs that should be worked by citizens instead of illegal aliens. I say contact your representative and ask them when will Ohio have a bill like Arizona!
2:11 Are you for real?
I believe a lot of "White" people go to bat for people of other races everyday.
What an interesting world you most live in to think that "White" people are never harressed?
If you want that law go pass it.Although e-verifying a Social Security card or driver's license should be enough. You are telling a lie about what's in that Arizona bill, why?
Truth be told the average White, Black, even legal Hispanics have had enough of open borders and people feeling they have a right to come in and do as they please.
I know I am.
The fact I mentioned concerned Obama's Aunt and that she has been here for 6 years after being ordered deported show how broke the system is. She also lived in Cleveland. So this happens all over the country and by more than just Hispanics.
No where did I mention Obama had any involvement or blame other than being related. It is news because it was heard and announced in Cleveland and because of who she was. Now the person or persons granting asylum, that might be different and could be for political gain in the future. Also, this is a well reported case and easily verified and not like the ones above.
She isn't related to the person in charge in 2004 and asylum wasn't granted during his presidency. So what does he have to do with this. It was reported today. The whole system is broke. The law is the law and the consequences of breaking the laws must be enforced. The fact that she lived in public housing didn't come free. It cost the taxpayers.
Just to make it clear. I didn't expect Obama to personally deport her any more than I expected Bush. If I have a fire, I call the fire department. A break in, the police. I get sick, I call the doctor and so on. Blaming Bush for Katrina is about as stupid as blaming the floods in Tennessee and the oil spill on Obama.
Secure the border, get a better nationwide ID that every immigrant must carry like we do with our drivers license, enforce the laws we have or write better ones that will be enforced. If the various branches of the government can't work together to bring this about, then things will only get worse. If our elected officials can't do this, then vote them out of office. Stop blaming the government, we are the ones who elected them and keep electing more like them. Time for us to vote for the real changes we need to solve these problems.
By the way, I don't remember who was in charge in 2004. So who do you blame in 2004?
To 1:48 and 2:11: First of all, nobody is saying that all white people can ask all brown people for their ID whenever they want to. It's law enforcement that can do it, and of course they should have the right to.
As far as blacks are concerned. Don't get me started. I was someone who faught my whole life for black rights. (I'm white in case you can't already tell.) I'm so sick of the black race, I could scream. I would be hard pressed to be automatically prejudiced against a black I met, and there are black people that are very special to me and that I love. But the black race as a whole, after you take out the few who this does not apply to, has lost my support.
I have waited for generations now for the black people to just join America. But they are so prejudiced against white people that I'll bet it's a full 50% who have refused to do that. Black people still create gettos -- worse than ever -- and still blame it on white people.
Even the blacks who have educated themselves and seem to have taken their rightful place in America are so prejudiced that it is sickening. It is so ingrained in their society that they think it is fine. Each generation is more prejudiced against whites than the last.
Like that professor -- what is his name -- looked like he was possibly breaking into his house. When the police asked for ID, istead of giving it to him and having the necessary conversation, the black guy made it a big racial oh-poor-me public thing.
Like I said, don't get me started on the blacks, either. As I said, the biggest problem with blacks in their prejudice against white people. They thrive on it. If the blacks would join America, the vast majority of white people would welcome it. I don't blame anyone for being prejudiced anymore. As I said, I spent my whole life defending and fighting for black rights. No more. I've had enough of that, too.
All this talk about races reminded me I wrote and sold a column to Associated Content back in 2006. Here it is:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/86829/illegal_immigrants_and_the_english.html?cat=9
or you could just type in associatedcontent.com and then search kathy sak. Anyway, I mention Painesville in the column. It's supposed to be light-hearted and funny in a way, but sometimes my humor goes off the edge. I sold the column so I have no rights to copy it and post it now - you have to go to their site to read it.
To Term & Kathy:
Here's an interesting take that anyone on the fence about the Arizona immigration law should take into account.
Rather than prattle on about my interpretation, I'll provide a link to the full text of the law, excerpt the section that most concerns me, then explain exactly WHY that concerns me.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
Here, now is Section 2, Paragraph B. of the above law, in its entirety:
FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.
Now, study that clause. Digest it. Let it melt in your mouth a little.
Remember that a police officer may be in "lawful contact" with you if you come to the station to report a crime, or if you are walking down the street passing a cop on the beat, or if you are stopped to be given a "sniff test" during the holiday season. Hell, a police officer may be in "lawful contact" with you if he's sitting on the bench next to you at a sporting event!
Then there is that "shall be made" clause. The officer has no ability to use his judgement -- if a man is taking his wife to the hospital to deliver a baby and is stopped by the police, and the police believe that the wife doesn't speak English, then the policeman MUST make a reasonable attempt to determine the immigration status of the wife!
Is that REALLY what we want in America??
To 9:03
Unless the wife was driving, she isn't the one being detained. The driver is. She doesn't have to give her name or show any ID unless it is clear that she is committing a crime. The police only have the right to question the driver. He is the one being detained. The police can ask for her ID but she is not required to answer.
The same search and seizure laws apply everywhere. Now if the officer saw drugs, heard a trunk full of illegal immigrants or any other criminal activity in the car, then they can question her and search the car.
The same thing happens right here in Painesville every day with drugs and drug dealers. The police can only detain the driver unless they see drugs anywhere else in the car. They can passengers with known drug offenses but they can not search or detain the passengers. Only the driver for the traffic offense.
Also, don't read into this anywhere that the officer would prevent medical treatment just because of this law.
I have to wonder if such a fuss would be made if they had caught the any of the 9/11 terrorists or any other person here illegally before they committed their crime. Arizona has a big problem with illegal Hispanic immigration and drug traffic. Now if this pregnant woman instead was a leader of a drug cartel, everyone would praising the police and the law. If a person commits several crimes then why overlook some.
"LAWFUL CONTACT"
So your interpretation, everyone is guilty and be detained just for sitting next to a policeman. I better make sure I don't sit next to a police officer in church or confession.
Law enforcement.
From the Salem Witch Trials to no Law West of the Pecos or the total lack of police authority in Mexico to people disappearing in the night, I believe this falls somewhere in between.
Catch a drug dealer, fine, but not an illegal immigrant. First the government doesn't do enough then it does too much. Maybe the best thing to do is just enforce the laws. Know that you will get a ticket every time you speed in a school zone then you stop speeding and also tell all your friends. Other wise it is just as effective as the dress code a Harvey. A law or a rule is useless unless enforced.
No not what I want. And I don't want any more driving while black situations, and I don't want racial profiling, and I don't want people to be hateful and mean, and I don't want any more murders or beatings or rapes or children being abused,and the list goes on and on . ... I don't have a solution. I just think the Arizona law doesn't go any farther than the Patriot Act, or even Painesville's new housing ordinance which gives inspectors the right to show up at your house and ask to be let inside to inspect because they have a HUNCH you might be violating a housing code. The city manager has said if you refuse to let them in they will return with an administrative search warrant which by her definition, does NOT have to meet the probable cause standard. Yet no one seems outraged by that. Why not?
Let's take a look at this topic. Seems a lot of talk and name calling directed at one race or another. The bottom line here is that most of these complaints are about the poorer and less educated of these groups. Where do most of these people live? They live in the inner cities with low average incomes, under performing schools, high rentals, drug crimes, and generations after generation of welfare recipients.
Starting to sound like a town we know?
Now add to that the influx of ILLEGAL immigration. Let's face it, they are not the doctors, lawyers, bankers or business owners sneaking across the border. It is the poor, unemployed, less educated and God forbid, drug dealers or worse. Sure, they want a better place to live but unless they become part of our country legally, they are just adding to the ever growing list of people lining up for their free entitlements (payed for by us tax payers) from the government. Wait a minute, the government doesn't make money, it just gets it from us in taxes or they can borrow more and then the China and the bankers get the interest.
Wouldn't it be great if some investigative reporter could follow some ILLEGAL immigrant from the Arizona border and follow the money trail and costs to the various cities, towns, states and federal programs this person creates. Wonder what the cost of to our country of this person is to get to Painesville.
Badger said...Let's face it, they are not the doctors, lawyers, bankers or business owners sneaking across the border.>>
Badger, You didn't include 'white' I wonder why? All who enter our country illegally are illegal aliens!
Now is this racial profiling?????
No one should have to show any papers right?? How can we tolerate this in our country?? And Michigan is only one state away.
Name SSN and immigration Status?????
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/05/obama_may_personally_greet_eac.html
12:46
Again with the race issue. As my post above shows that all graduates are asked for ID. In that case, even some minors are being asked. You are right in that ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL regardless of race. In this day and age of terrorists, sex offenders, drug dealers, and who knows what else, we have all the more reason to need a system of proper ID's and secure borders. Would it be nice not to worry about these things and just trust everyone. Yes it would.
We have church members, teachers, and other youth advisors taking advantage of our children. We have drug dealers selling drugs in our schools, on the street corners and where ever. We have more and more identity theft every day.
I say again, if checking ID's will catch a possible terrorist or a member of a drug cartel, then that's what must be done. If it curbs ILLEGAL immigration, then more and more will be force to either leave or become a legal resident or citizen. This way they will be part of the system instead of just using the system.
The vast, and I repeat, the vast portion of immigrants that made this country what it is did so legally. What gives you the right not to follow the proper steps.
Only a prejudice person makes this about race. It is about the law and how it effects jobs, the drain on social services and the cost to our school systems.
Badger, let me ask one question; if you get pulled over in Arizona, or anywhere for that matter, and are asked to prove
your citizenship, could you do so on a moment's notice? How would you do that? A driver's license is not proof.
Nor is a Social Security card, passport, proof of insurance, a utility bill, a birth certificate (according to some),
or the color of your skin. You would be held until they, and your citizenship, could be verified.
If you "had nothing to hide" how long would you be willing to be detained for that to happen? Minutes? Hours? DAYS?
I see Jay Ambrose wrote a column in The News-Herald today (5/19/10) about the reverse bigotry of the Hispanics against the whites. Thank goodness that people are starting to say it out loud. We have been so "politically correct" that it has allowed all kinds of things to be out of control in this country. It's time the whites stop taking the racism directed towards us sitting down.
To 12:46: The reason that people focus in on the Hispanics so much is because there are over 20 million here illegally. I didn't tell them to come, and it's not my fault they brought this on themselves. When they are made to go, then the rest of the illegals will go with them. There is no way that one person should be in our country without our government knowing about it. Can you imagine the poor people in law enforcement? We expect them to protect us, and they have no clue who even belongs here and who does not. It should be a rare occurance that someone is in our country illegally, and, therefore, easier for our police, etc. to spot them and get them in jail or out of here. Even if we forget about the safety of our citizens, what about the safety of our law enforcement people? They are in so much added danger every shift because of all these illegal people.
Ambrose also talks about the country banning together to boycott the ones who are boycotting Arizona. I also heard on the news that Arizona is telling California that if it boycotts them then Arizona will stop selling them electricity. Apparantly California gets 25% of it's electricity from Arizona.
That's what I'm talking about people! Let's grow a set already, get our tails out from between our legs, remember that we have spines and take back America.
I just heard on the news that someone in charge in Columbus -- the Governor? -- is boycotting Arizona by not letting any city workers go to Arizona for business.
Well said Badger!
I read where a young girl asked the first lady why the government was rounding up people and sending them back home?
We can only hope some American child asks when someone in their family can get a job after all the people who aren't supposed to be here are sent home.
Badger said... "The vast, and I repeat, the vast portion of immigrants that made this country what it is did so legally. What gives you the right not to follow the proper steps."??
Most immigrants just came over, just like the Mexicans are doing. The difference is, the Mexicans have to sneak in; while most white immigrants just came in! BTW, how does one immigrant legally, does anyone know?
No, the Mexicans don't have to sneak in.
THEY CHOOSE TO SNEAK IN.
They could apply for any one of the different type of visa's available just like almost every other person coming here must apply for. They would rather break the law. Try to just go to any other country by sneaking into it. Try just coming back to this country without proper ID. See how far you get. Also, not everyone that applies legally for a visa gets approved.
So 12:21 and 8:32, are you saying we should allow just anyone to just cross the borders any time they want? And are you saying the ones sneaking in have Social Security cards, passports, proof of insurances, a utility bill and birth certificate????
By the way, a VALID birth certificate does prove citizenship because I was born in this country. Also, to get my Ohio driver's license I had to have the following,
In order to obtain any Ohio Temporary Instruction Permit Card (TIPIC), Driver License, Commercial Driver License, State of Ohio Identification (ID) card, Motorcycle, Moped license, the customer must present documents to prove all of the following five elements: (1) legal first name, middle name, OR middle initial, and current last name; (2) date of birth; (3) Social Security Number (SSN), if ever assigned; (4) U.S. citizenship OR U.S. legal presence; and (5) resident street address in Ohio.
So I can simply show my drivers license and prove who I am because I already provided my papers to get it. Yes, they can have a fake ID just like I could. That is why we need a more secure form if ID for everyone.
So if they can't produce any of these forms then I would hope they are detained until they can.
Interesting that the President of Mexico comes to our Congress and speaks against Arizona's new law when....
Arizona's policy, which Calderon derided on Wednesday as "discriminatory" and assailed again on Thursday, requires law enforcement to try to determine the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant -- provided they are already in contact with that person. They can't randomly stop people and demand papers and the law prohibits racial profiling.
The Mexican law also states that law enforcement officials are "required to demand that foreigners prove their legal presence in the country before attending to any issues."
Someone please explain why we must look the other way if the Mexican government doesn't with their ILLEGAL immigration problem.
Also, the last time I checked, he wasn't on any ballot I cast. What gives him the right to address and admonish our Congress and attack our laws.
I'm with you, Badger. We need to quit bowing to this Calderon guy. Americans can't be in his country for one minute illegally without big consequences, yet he wants his whole country legalized in America. I mean COME ON!
If you have to provide all those forms of ID just to get your Ohio drivers license, why do we have so many people with Hispanic names in our courts without a drivers license? NOL
Go to PMCourt.com and read how many NOL appear before the court.
So, since I am proving my citizenship or legal status every time I show my drivers license to say cash a check, what is all this hub-bub about the Arizona law and racial profiling?
I tried to access this site and couldn't. Anyone have the right site to go to?
Now the question will be are they here illegally, or just haven't applied for a license?
What is the penalty of NOL? Is everyone treated the same?
http://www.pmcourt.com/index.shtml
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