"FIRE DOWN BELOW" bob seger
Well went to the safety meeting tonight at city hall. After the last meeting someone in the audience suggested expanding the committee by at least two "citizens."
Well we have two new members, one a city employee and the other a former city employee who I have not seen at a safety meeting let alone a council meeting in quite some time? The present employee does attend all safety meetings. Question if you have people interested why get someone who has shown zero interest? I will not print names because I am sure I will misspell them and hear about it for the next month. That said I wish them good luck in solving the city's safety issues.
Now the meat;
The safety committee heard five option on what to do about response time in Painesville for Fire and E.M.S. service.
They voted to present option #3 to city council this coming Monday.
A 2.5 mil combined levy and Bond that should cost the average Painesville home owner $85.00 per $100,000.
These monies will be used to build and equip a second fire station in the western part of the city near Jackson St. and the Rt.44 interchange.
First off my take this is not the area of most need. Funny if we spent alittle money with Grand River and Painesville Township we could look at the most pressing need,the residents south of the NS railroad tracks. The chief pointed out a study that shows the western end of the city will experience the most growth in the future. Tell that to the people in Liberty Greens.
Will this levy have a chance to pass? Well the residents in the north and east end will not see a benefit to increase their taxes. The south end have been promised a fire station for over 50 years I don't see them jumping on the bandwagon. Along with another thought how far from the present station will this be, along with how close to Painesville Townships Nye Rd. station this new station be.
City leaders from all communities better get ready for regionalization it coming soon, People can't afford the present setup this cooperation is to important to ignore it.
Present Scorecard of proposed increases
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City Schools . $215.00
City Safety 85.00
MR/DD 48.00 [passed]
Will there be more?
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"NOT ONLY FIRE DOWN BELOW, BUT WATER TOO"
ANYONE HAVING FLOOD ISSUES IN THE CEDARBROOK AREA, PLEASE E-MAIL ME.!!!!!!!
drdebb@oh.rr.com
I am gathering all information.
I want to help all of us with this problem.
Storm drains back-up into basements flooding them, as well as backyards flooding.
The city along with the city engineer are well aware of the problem.
I will try to get help for all of us.
Please e-mail me
Thank-you Deb
posted by terminator1 @ 5:48 PM
34 Comments
34 Comments:
Funny, when the city annexed all this lanmd we were told we would be rolling in revenue? More fairy tales?
the only one I see coming out a head is Paul Hach.
city always give the protection to their peoples. protect from fire and damages. more fair post.
JaHada picked this former city employee to be on this safety committee to give them some experience so when she runs against Flock in Ward 1 she can tout it. He has made getting rid of Flock job 1.
I would like to see this independent study the chief spoke of. Where it stated Jackson and 44 best location for the new firehouse?
A question for council?
Also where does all the insurance money the city collects for transporting people to the hospital? Close to a half million a year?
This is "fiscally responsible."
Get Real.
Rita better start getting along with her neighbors, she wants Champange on a Beer budget.
That, not the best place for fire station #2 but someone will make out on the citys purchase of property, wonder who?
The 2 new members is very typical Hada way of doing things. As you look at all the committees and the members appointed you will find they are all puppy dog followers or Hada supporters. This is why the city gets no where, all our new blood is really just the same old blood recycled.
When our charter is changed how committees are appointed needs to be one of the changes.
someone should check with the school administration and ask why they decided not to build a new school there, on the annexed land? this was a first choice spot.
I believe Heritage was built in Painesville, but Chestnut Elementary was built on annexed land.
I have been assured by the city the the new schools and Liberty Greens have no bearing on the flooding in that area. A person has to wonder...
one of the safety committee member's said AFTER the meeting the land around shamrock area [annexed by painesville city] is not suitable to build is the reason a school was not built there. this was decided from a study which the painesville city school's had performed. WITH ALL THE WORKING TO-GETHER WITH OUR SCHOOL ADMINISTRATION and member's on council connected with the city school's WOULD'NT YOU THINK WE COULD HEAR THE TRUTH ABOUT the annexed land we keep trying to develope. HOW ABOUT THAT.GENSE
When the new schools were first proposed there was a campus planned in the area west of Rt.44 and east of Heisley Park. I have heard many reasons why this plan was dropped the state nixing the idea seems to make the most sense. WHY? With Mr. Fodor in the administration at the time he could probably give you the best answer. If that is true why would he allow basements for homes be built in that area? I talked to a well known builder about construction in that area. All he did was shake his head.
The question of the flooding on Cedarbrook seems to range from 90 degree elbows in pipes to motorcycle batteries blocking the storm sewer. The construction of Liberty Greens and the new school has NO affect on the flooding. The city stated the storm water exits toward Liberty St. Well maybe the question to ask the city does if ever get backed-up and heads west back to Cedarbrook?
I'm with 3:33. I'd like to see the independent study the chief talked about, too. Can we get a copy of that?
And maybe I don't understand the whole situation, but McMahon says that it is not fiscally responsible to spend 100,000 to go in with another city, but it IS to go a whole NEW station alone?
This is 12:18 to add to my previous post. I don't want it to sound like I am against added stations, I'm just questioning how they propose to do it. We clearly need to do something.
Something to ponder, at a safety meeting the fire chief mentioned that a new 100ft. aerial fire truck could cost as much as $900,000 do the math. Painesville with the new census may have 20,000people.[$45.00per person] A regional cooperative fire district is the only way this system can survive. How many fire stations can one city build? Is the safety of the citizens in an area important or is more important that we keep our departments autonomous? Can we afford to?
The question is simple, control of a fire department more important then the safety and cost to a community?
If they run the safety department the way they run public works the answer is simply. What qualifications does our city manager have to be safety director.
I agree with the Painesville Magazine we will make a BIG jump this year in rating the surburbs.
GOOD POST TERM. 643pm it has been pointed out to city council and the new safety committee WE HAVE SEVERAL SEVERAL SEVERAL fire dept's all close close close around our painesville resident's. WE HAVE OTHER OPTION'S THAN A NEW TAX LEVY. however it would be the EASY way. BLAME THE RESIDENT;S for not voting for a tax increase. wish i was a RENTER. MY RENT WOULD NOT GO UP AS MUCH AS MY TAXES. fighoson..
7:38 Thank-you, but you might have a misconception about renters. Chances are your rent will go up more the nbext time you renew your lease. As it has been mentioned here many times I have "friends" that are landlords. These people are not stupid they won't eat the tax increase without passing it on to a renter. Chances are if the taxes go up $300.00 a year the rent will go up at least $30.00 a month renters should be made aware of this by their landlords in a letter.
As far as section 8 you may have a point but in that case the government pays most of the rent and we all know where that money comes from.
Personally I have very little faith in the administration making the right moves with this new station.
The city should also explain what they do with all the money they collect from insurance companies and Medicare for transporting people to hospitals. This is all new revenue the city never had 10 years ago. Where does this money go? General fund? Fire fund? where does this additional $400,000 per year endup?
8:59 Where does the money go?
Fire Dept. 2009 annual report page 49-52.
"The City of Painesville began billing for EMS transports in January of 2003 and in 2009
the department transported a total of two thousand one hundred fifty-six (2,156) times,
up nearly twenty-eight percent (28%) since 2003. The revenues generated from EMS
billing are used for the purchase of ambulances, and medical equipment as well as for
ten percent (10%) of personnel costs."
So it looks like it all stays in the Fire Dept.
Read for yourself here (49-52)
http://www.painesville.com/vertical/Sites/%7B66FDE066-2B9A-43E2-8DFC-2129003D50A7%7D/uploads/%7B0196EDB3-A034-44EE-9578-82CA37AB7855%7D.PDF
3:33 I would like to see this independent study the chief spoke of.
ME TOO!
And which study is he referring to?
The 2009 fire annual report talks about 3 studies.
2000, 2004, and 2007
See p. 45-46 of the report
"The City has contracted three (3) studies in the recent past to look at this very subject.
In a study completed by Architectural Resources Corporation in 2000 it was determined
that the City of Painesville would be best served by at least two (2) fire stations. In a
study conducted by Emergency Services Consulting Inc. and completed in 2004 it was
suggested that it would take three (3) stations to adequately cover the City. Both studies
strongly suggested cooperative services with neighboring communities to affect this
coverage. A third study conducted by Emergency Services Consulting Inc in 2007 in
cooperation with all fire departments of the east end of Lake County, again found that
by entering into cooperative agreements with neighboring communities services could
be maximized and response times reduced. This third study did again find and identify
areas that would need additional resources to provide adequate coverage.
It is believed that until certain steps are taken this inability to meet the stated goals will
continue and probably worsen. The steps that are believed necessary are:
• Additional Stations
Through a thorough analysis of our responses over 2009 it has been
discovered that there are three (3) areas that continually fall outside of
the five (5) minute response goal. These areas are the area to the
extreme north end of Ward I, the area south of the Norfolk Southern
Railway and the area west of Route 44. These are the same areas noted
in studies done on deployment schemes.
Approximately twenty-eight percent (28%) of our responses that are in
excess of five (5) minutes are south of the Norfolk Southern Rail Line.
Another twenty-nine percent (29%) of our long responses are in the
north end and the area west of Route 44 accounts for thirteen percent
(13%).
To address these areas will require an overall re-deployment of resources
and construction of new stations.
• Increased Staffing
Whether additional stations are built or not increased staffing is
necessary. With the move of the hospital to Concord in 2009 transport
times have nearly tripled which in turn has increased our reliance on
mutual aid for EMS calls and other emergencies. Additional staffing in
the present station will allow for additional emergencies to be handled
from within the City and thereby reduce our dependency on mutual aid
which in turn will reduce our response times or at least keep them from
growing."
I wonder if these "studies" are public documents?
Calling Kathy Sak.......
Can we get a copy of that study?
The problem with anything that this city does is that you cannot trust them. They tell half truths and untruths all the time about everything. So how can you trust what they are saying about this, especially when their first thing is to build a whole new station and put on new taxes.
We need a copy of that report, and I still think that other communities need to be talked to to see what talks have and have not transpired between them and Painesville over the last several years.
We need Murphy. Where is Murphy? If they hadn't cheated him out of two elections with their lying and cheating, then we would have someone working for us that we could be assured would give us honest, complete information.
We need to start by getting a copy of the study. Can we get a copy of that study? Term? Murphy?
And what about 8:59's question? How much IS the money they take in, and where is it?
We really need Flock, Werner and Murphy, too, to set up meetings with the surrounding communities to see what they need, what has transpired between them and Painesville in the last few years, and if we can be equally beneficial to each other. Sounds like we need more than one new station, and it just seems ridiculous to even be thinking of a levy when the people are so uninformed. Maybe Flock or Hal can set up a public meeting with all the parties and we can all hear an open discussion on this. And I don't mean a meeting where Hada is running the show and his mouth is going the whole time. I mean a meeting that would get us away from the usual crap and actually getting information from the other entities as far as what they need and what they think.
http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/pdf/11/2010/2010-ohio-2050.pdf
Term this is a link to the supreme court desion regarding the steele mansion owner, its seems that your formrer poster either did not see it or can not read. Its very interesting.
in response to post 2:56 which is a interesting post. I will try to explain. extreme north WARD 1 three fire station's are ready when called to respond well with-in the 3-minute time goal. west of route 44 jackson st.[area] four fire station's are ready when called to respond well with-in the 3- minute time goal. [WARD 4] south of norfolk rail-line three fire station's are ready when called to respond well with-in the 3-minute time goal. [WARD'S 2&3] SO YOU CAN SEE WE ARE NOT ISOLATED. I was at the safety meeting wed may 12 2010 they have other option's to look at. [other than a tax levy. HOW ABOUT THAT..
8:26: I'm confused about your post. Can you elaborate? Are you saying that Wards 1 and 4 are okay, they are covered, but Wards 2 and 3 are not?
What about the other options? Can you tell us more?
isn't city council putting the cart before the horse, let the people of painesville have an open forum to discuss the LEVY before, they put it on the ballot. wouldn't that make more sense?after all, we are the people that will pay the taxes.we have 10 fire houses around the city of painesville, why do we need another one?HOW ABOUT THAT
7:49 That was one of the things brought up by councilman Fodor. Town Hall meeting in all ward to let the people give input. Good idea.
I just can't understand why our city manager is so against option 6 Cooperation with nearby communities. Grow up, form a fire district. Having control over your fire department more important than the safety of everyone around you? Where is the leadership Ms. McMahon?
Cast your VOTE for a grant for 8 Eastern Lake County Fire Departments to consolidate record keeping.
Voting ends May 31. Each resident (age 13+) may cast one ballot.
(After voting, you are asked for your email address and then, name, address, etc.)
Here is your chance to MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
http://www.efficientgovnow.org/Vote/
OK -- now for all of those pesky details that you want to know about this.
Shortest summary (found on voting page)
I. A Better Approach for Our Fire Departments to Help the Public
Partners: Lake County Commissioners, Lake County Central Communications, Concord Township FD, Perry Joint Fire District, Painesville City FD, Fairport Harbor Village FD, Grand River Village FD, Leroy Township FD, Madison Fire District, Painesville Township FD
Proposal Summary
This application is about improving the service of Lake County’s eastern Fire Districts and Departments by leveraging technology to build an intelligent cost-effective system that will be used to streamline operations, efficiently use public tax dollars, and ultimately reduce response time to save more lives.
Longer Summary:
http://www.efficientgovnow.org/Proposals/round2project4.html
Complete proposal found here:
http://www.efficientgovnow.org/FileUploads/Proposals/4%20proposal%20041610.pdf
Project goal:
Our unified goal is to reduce the costs of duplicated records management systems by centralizing everything at the county and leveraging the
existing sophisticated technology and telecommunications infrastructure.
We also seek to improve efficiency by integrating all of the record management system to the 911 Dispatch database.
This goal is attainable, and replicable for other agencies, counties, and even for an inter-county approach.
Please vote.
I read the complete proposal and think it has merit. Although the savings to each municipality are modest (by some standards) it is most certainly a step in the right direction, meaning regionalization. Just curious about one thing; if I am reading it correctly, this proposal has been discussed at great length and some of the groundwork already completed. How come we are just now hearing about it, and on a private blog too? You would think that something that some citizens have been very critical of (see letters to the editor; News Herald, and this blog as well) would have been answered by their respective fire departments with this proposal long ago. I am going to e-mail Commissioner Troy to see if there is any additional info to be had. Thank you 6:24...I don't know how you came across this information but it's a very worthwhile read.
Or was this being held back as ammo to get a levy passed?
This proposal was brought up at the Safety Committee meeting by a member.
Both the Fire Chief and the City Manager seemed cool on the idea. They both stated they needed more information and the chief went on to say this wound proposal would save him $6000.00 in record keeping. Then he mentioned he doesn't even spend that much now. He felt this was a chief looking for someone to do his paperwork. So Alice I don't even see council being informed of this.
Gee Term...that's too bad because even though the money saved is small...it would be a very good beginning to a working relationship between municipalities. Getting such a varied group to work together on ANYTHING is an accomplishment and a big step in the right direction. If everyone saves a little money and it improves safety in the area (even marginally) then what's the problem? I am so tired of people paid by tax dollars not being willing to actively look for and execute these kinds of opportunites. 'Cool toward the idea'....Why? We save some money, have a more efficient system put in place for safety issues and help smaller neighboring communities that wouldn't be able to do this on their own. Someone was inspired enough to even come up with a viable plan...too bad Painesville leadership didn't even think it important enough to talk it up outside of a committee meeting. Too bad you didn't see the merit in it either....progress is most often measured in small steps. This would have been one of them.
And in case anyone wonders why this will probably NOT happen; one big reason is that this proposal is in the running with numerous others for grant money to make it happen. Only three will be chosen by the group writing the checks. They put it out there for citizens to vote (on-line) for the
project(s) they felt were most deserving. I don't know what kind of support other communities tried to muster but there sure wasn't any in Painesville. I thought we never looked the other way when grant money was involved..or is it that we just don't bother when we aren't the direct recipients?
And so another chance for cooperation between local municipalities slips away.
Hi Alice,
I agree with your take on this small step in the RIGHT direction. As of yesterday, this showed up on Painesville's home page.
"Vote Online to Help Fire Departments in Lake County Receive Grant Funding"
http://www.painesville.com/
It is also on Sheriff's website --
http://www.sheriffdunlap.org/
Which reminds me:
911 calls go to a central location that "provides police and fire dispatching services for 19 Public Safety Agencies throughout Lake County".
http://www.sheriffdunlap.org/central_communications.htm
6:24
To 6:24...Thanks again....another case of too little....too late. Lo and behold...just a few days before balloting ends the Golden Dome finally gets in the act. Hope they don't try to claim that it was there all along and no one participated so it is our fault. It would have been nice if someone that sits at that head table would have mentioned it during a public meeting early on.
I checked out the sheriff's site too, very interesting read. I guess I'll have to add the City of Painesville's official site to my daily routine to keep up; I haven't up to now because I try to use my time wisely and propaganda hasn't been part of that goal.
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