" A LITTLE BIT ME A LITTLE BIT YOU " monkees
Talk out
Let's have it talked out and things will be okay
It took me some time to cool down before wrote this post.
Last night in the Town Hall Meeting that councilman DeLeone and councilwoman Shoop held at city hall.
The city was represented by Acting city manager Doug Lewis, finance director Andy Unitec and Painesville Power superintendent Jeff McHugh.
Graphs and numbers were shown on what a hot August we had just had. "Maybe your home isn't insulated properly? Just because it's new doesn't mean its energy efficient." Your air-conditioner might be undersized? You just are plain consuming to much?
Listened to residents ask about the Power Cost Adjustment to be explained to them?
One resident explained that he had replaced his heating and air conditioning unit as well as twice replacing all the light bulbs in his home and still his bill went up.
Enough already!
In the public portion of the meeting I took those 25-30 people on a history lesson that started almost 10 years ago.
I explained the failure of Meigs County and the 2.1 million dollars in stranded costs Painesville paid.
I explained Prairie State Energy Campus where AMP-OHIO representatives promised power at $48.06 ESTIMATE! and first we paid $300,000 and didn't receive zilch and when the power did arrive it was more then double the estimated cost. And presently still costs over $40.00 MWh. over the going rate.
Let's not forget the Hydro-power on the Ohio River this project was so mismanaged by AMP-OHIO to we were promised a cost of $69.00 MWh. and presently are paying $143.00 MWh.
And our own power plant who only operates at the most four weeks a year. But we save 4 million in "peak shaving" costs. Show me the Check!
What's it cost us to keep the plant operational for a year? No clue.
Does our power utility make money? Not a clue. it depends on the weather?
A lady mentioned that she owned a 9000 sq.ft. building in the city with two heating and air-conditioners as well as being fully staffed. Her bill was only $12.00 higher then her home in Heisley Park? Maybe it's time to show us all electric rates?
To their credit they did admit to entering power contracts that looked good, but then the power market went down. I think we have heard this all before?
So in finishing yell at the kids to shut the lights off. Put in a new air-conditioner replace light bulbs to your hearts content. But remember until the City of Painesville fixes their house your house is at their mercy!
The city has decided to hire an outside consultation for $13,000 to see if improvements can be made and if we are doing something wrong?
posted by terminator1 @ 10:59 AM
16 Comments
16 Comments:
I suspect it will be quite easy for the outside consultation to figure out what the city is doing wrong; how about starting with the city having to spend $13K so someone else can tell them how badly they do their jobs, since they can't figure it out for themselves?
Is the outside consultant going to recommend getting a new Law Director to replace the one we have who, it seems, doesn't know how to negotiate contracts?
Saving $4 million is not the same as being refunded $4 million. There is no check. There is less money going out. Why can't you understand that?
Had anything happened in this country in the last ten years that might have had an effect on the $48.06 estimate? Like,I don't know, a recession? Manufacturing leaving the country? Fracking?
Sheesh! Last week you said you lost a desire to listen. It seems to me you never had a desire to listen.
7:42 It was sold to us as a "turn key" operation it wasn't. A recession explain why power from there would double? Fracking was explained at some of the meetings. No they didn't do their homework. They listened to the Pied Piper AMP and see what it got us.
The 4 million dollar question? So in 'peak shaving' we save 4 million dollars a year. What do we spend to keep the plant operational for a year? Are we spending 7 million to save 4 million?
PCA Power Cost Adjustment seems to be a science no one can explain what goes into the formula how it's then formulated. We were told it was what the city purchased outside what they produced? So if the city isn't producing power the whole bill is PCA?
A consultant will report whatever the people are paying them. Chances are the consulting firm won't be independent but somewhat intertwined with the city or AMP-OHIO don't expect any earth shattering results. Oh, the look on the face when I explained power plant worker were cutting grass at the cemeteries, priceless!
7:42 A very simple question for you.
What else has doubled in cost since 2008 (the year of the recession)?
Actually, since that time, the cost to get fossil fuels to us has gone DOWN. Look at the price of gasoline the next time you buy for a comparison.
I have been to many of the same meetings as Term and listening to an "explanation" of the PCA will make your head explode. If you haven't been there for an explanation, I invite you to try it.
Furthermore, the $4M that is always talked about, all Term is asking is "where does it show up"? If we are receiving $4M from "somewhere", our cost of electricity should be damned near zero. Instead the electric fund grows larger and larger since that money can not be used for anything else in the City.
To get that $4M we have a plant that rarely produces power, couldn't do it in 24 hours (there is NO coal stored to boil water), and we keep approx 25 people employed doing everything in the City.
if it was YOUR business, you would shut it down and cut your losses.
Painesville should do the same.
6:58 comparing the cost of gasoline to the cost of coal is asinine. Unless, of course you know of a process through which you can produce gasoline from coal? Obama promised to bankrupt the coal industry, and his EPA has tried their hardest to do just that. So, naturally coal prices are higher. Additionally, Prairie State power has to pass through MISO and PJM to get to Painesville. That makes double the transmission costs. (When Painesville bought into Prarie State they were part of MISO) So, no, there is no comparing coal and gasoline, or even coal and natural gas since natural gas is not subject to the same stringent regulations as coal.
I have heard Term get invited to the power plant to observe first hand s the PCA is calculated. I bet he has never gone. So his complaints about their explanation are invalid. I have already heard the PCA explanation and my head didn't explode. I felt it made sense.
And now you are doing the same thing term does. We do NOT receive $4 million dollars! We PAY $4 million LESS in transmission costs.
And finally, you have no clue how I run my business, so don't tell me what I would or wouldn't do with it.
Terminator...The $13,000 is for a RATE STUDY to see if the fixed KWH rate is too high or too low! Normally a utility looks at its rates periodically and adjusts the rate by applying for a PUCO rate hearing. Painesville being different and not under PUCO oversight, they haven't done a rate study for some time (over 25 years). Hence, the rate in Section 929.01 RESIDENTIAL SCHEDULE is probably inaccurate. What isn't clear is whether it should be higher or lower. What do we know? We know the plant in the last 25 years is operating less and less. Further we know it needs lower manpower to operate. What we don't know as residents is what future fixed costs should be in the new study. That is why the study is required.
.
As for the PCA it is pretty clear as to what the elements are that should be in it per section 929.06 of the city code about utilities rates. They are below.
WHAT ISN'T CLEAR IS WHAT THE ACUTAL COST AMOUNTS ARE; WHETHER THEY TRENDING UP OR TRENDING DOWN!
PCA ELEMENTS:
(a) Power Cost Adjustment-Rider No. 1. The power cost adjustment per KWH, which shall be applied to all KWH's sold under these rate schedules, shall be calculated as a rolling twelve (12) month average, shall be the sum of the adjustments for fuel, for purchased power, and power supply, based on data from the most recent twelve-month period preceding the start of the billing month to which the adjustment is to be applied, less $.005 per KWH, which has been incorporated into all base rate schedules. Components of the adjustment are hereby adopted for all utility bills issued on and after May 1, 2001, and are calculated as follows:
(1) Fuel.
(2) Purchased power.
(3) Power supply.
If at any time the power cost adjustment for a month increases by more than fifty percent (50%) over the preceding month, it may be spread equally over two billing periods. The portion to be carried over into the second billing period shall be adjusted by the ratio of the net KWH's of the first month to the net KWH's of the second month.
(b) Primary Metering Discount-Rider No. 2. If the electricity is metered on the primary side of the transformer, a discount of two percent (2%) of the primary meter registration in each of the City's electric schedules shall be allowed for electricity so metered.
(c) School Discount--Rider No. 3. For electricity provided to all public schools and property within the City corporation limits and under the jurisdiction of the local Board of Education, a discount of thirty percent (30%) shall be allowed for the total electric billing in each of the City's electric schedules.
(Ord. 10-01. Passed 4-2-01.)
Further, the city does not have a planning or rate department to do a rate study. They have an operational superintendent that is capable of running the plant. It was the past City Managers who had the responsibility to adjust the rates each year. Did they? My question will be over the last 25 years have the rates in section 929.01 changed at all? If they haven't then how were the manpower reductions and reduction in plant operation costs were handled as far as the fixed rate or were they?
7:58/7:51 Well I guess that clears it all up! You people keep changin' those light bulbs.
1:19 You work at the power plant uh?
12:45 - 1:19 here. I work at the power plant? Really? That would be news to my employees and spouse. As I said to 6:58, you have no clue how I run my business. I am merely a customer who listens when explanations are given.
Term,
Apparently you came to the same conclusion about 1:19 that I did.
He doesn't seem to understand that the comparison between the cost of coal and gasoline was just that, a comparison. I used gasoline as an example of something where the costs have gone down since 2008. However, my point was that I can't think of anything that has doubled in cost in that time except my electric rates.
He thinks he knows where the mystery $4M is!!! We pay less in transmission costs!!! Damn, I never heard that explanation from any City official. Not the CM, not the Finance Director, not the Power Superintendent, no one.
So we get a savings of $4M in transmission costs but the PCA keeps going up. I wonder how that happens.
If any explanation of the way the PCA is calculated made sense to you, you were never in the same room with me. Mr Mc Hugh talks in circles.
Last but not least if you do run your business (assuming you have one) the way the power plant runs, you would be broke and out of business. There again, maybe you are that dense.
Out.
8:29 One can only hope his business isn't in Painesville.
He's a lot easier to convince then the rest of us.
1:19 would your operation survive operating 4 weeks a year? Would your business survive if its purchases of raw material was 30% higher than your competitors?
But it would survive if your customers were only allowed to purchase from you.
If you didn't know or care if your business made a profit or a loss?
It then is no longer a business but a welfare department.
8:29 & 12:46 if my business could save my customers $4 million in 4 weeks, my customers would lift me onto their shoulders and parade me through the streets! Sadly, in the construction industry it doesn't happen. As a smaller contractor, my "raw materials" are in the range of 30% higher than some of my larger competitors, and yet, it still survives. And there are many times, when work is slow and hard to come by, where I will take a job that only earns me enough to pay my employees. Otherwise, I would have to lay them off, they would go back to the union hall and get picked up by another contractor, and then, when work gets busy, I'd be stuck with the luck of the draw on the work books. I value the known abilities of my workers and would rather not go through that.
Painesville's electric plant, like my construction business, is small. As such the increase in coal costs disproportionately affects them. And while the current administration says market conditions like natural gas have caused this increase, that just isn't so. Coal plants do not easily convert to being natural gas plants. It is the epa's current and proposed regulations that are driving up costs. (though I doubt you will believe that, since you don't even grasp the concept of a discount)
12:06 So O.K. you save your customers 4 million dollars but in the long run you spent 7 million to do that? Doesn't make sense.
Your business is slow so you take jobs to keep your employee's working. So I know wages in construction can be high would you pay those employee's those wages to cut grass/ride a lawnmower? and do other odd jobs?
Gas vs. Coal well lets say a new method came along in your businesses would you embrace it if it saved time and money, or would you say we have been doing it this way since forever and this is how we will do it?
Finally if your business was in a community where the local government passed laws and ordinances as to no one could do business in their area but you how efficient and cost conscience would you become?
The jobs I pick up to keep my guys working during the slow times would be the construction equivalent to mowing the grass, so, yeah.i do pay top dollar so that I have the guys I want in my company. Oh and I've been doing it this way for over thirty years, so I must be doing something right.
I embrace new method all the time, but in construction,a new method doesn't mean throwing everything else away. I'm pretty sure a coal fired boiler will not make efficient use of gas. They would probably have to gut the plant and rebuild to go with this "new" method. If they shut down all together, they're going to have a massive clean up bill, because the spa isn't going to let that containers soil where they stored their coal just sit there. It will have to be cleaned up. No doubt the building, being as old as it is, is full of asbestos, too. So of they were to get rid of the coal boilers, they would have a huge abatement bill.
So, which direction do you want them to go? No matter what they do with the plant, It's going to cost us money as customers. It seems to me that right now, what they are doing is saving us the most that they can.
9:14 can't argue with your reasoning on the plant, or it's future. I only hope you don't have 46 out of 52 slow weeks a year in your business. I guess I could never understand the city for purchasing 100% of this community's power needs and at the same time upgrading a plant and staffing it?
Post a Comment
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
<< Home