"THE COST OF FREEDOM" foxnews
Sorry no song today only a picture of what it cost the resident's of Painesville for a resignation!
From: "Lewis, Doug"
Date August 11, 2016
To: Angelo Cimaglio
Cc: Painesville City Council
Grimm Tara
AUnetic
Subject: Public Records Request
Dear Mr. Cimaglio
Thank you for your request for information. I apologize for the delay in responding. In response to your public records request I am attaching the last contract.
The amount of the payout is below.
Although not required to create a public record, Council strongly believes in transparency and directed the following breakdown of the payments put together to respond to public record requests:
3 month salary
$32,096.61
Vacation Payout
$42,287.65
Sick Payout
$62,098.30
Holiday Payout
$2,962.76 (48 hours)
August 1, 2016 Payout
$139,445.32
September 15, 2016
Payout $32,096.61 (3 months salary)
TOTAL PAYOUT
$171,541.93
I believe this answers your public records request. Please contact me if you have questions and/or need additional information.
Sincerely,
Douglas L. Lewis
Assistant City Manager/Community Development Director City of Painesville.
That's what I received I will let you chime in on your thoughts. (an example) How many Holidays are there in 3 months or is it 6 months?)
Plus is there anyone out there who still believes this was a "Resignation?" If so why?
I guess we reward some people pretty well for three years of service?
posted by terminator1 @ 8:14 AM
23 Comments
23 Comments:
A few questions:
What six holidays are between now and January 1?
How many of them fall within the three months from termination? That would be the months of August, September, and October.
How does one accrue $62K in "sick" time??
Using the holiday time as a basis, that mean we paid the CM at a rate of about $61 per hour.
If I do the math, that means he received about 693 hours in vacation time and about 1018 hours in "sick" time.
How is this even close to reality?? If you use 220 days for a standard work year times 8 hours per day, that is 1760 hours of WORK per year. That would mean that in three years in the "ville, he got about 2/3 of a year of pay for not being sick?? Who the hell negotiates contracts like this for the tax payers?
Why did he receive three months (first and last item listed) of pay twice??
If he actually did "resign", why are we on the hook to pay him at all?
I hope people remember this when members of Council are up for re-election.
(
;12 Remember ATM ain't their money. It's yours this is the most convoluted contract and seems council was taken over the coals? If you ask them they can explain the numbers? But never the reason for them. This was no resignation and they must take us for fools to think we believe that!
That said;
I hope Tony enjoys the windfall!
He deserves every dime for putting up with this bunch.
Term,
9:12 here and I don't disagree with your thoughts at all, especially the last one.
Wonder if he was allowed to carry over sick time from a previous employer? Some places will let you do that...
I believe the problem here is most of us commenting are going by our experiences in the private sector. I have watched for years as this city continues to elect council people that are also on public/education payrolls elsewhere. Their experience in public sector makes these kind of sweet deals perfectly OK.
This city needs to start electing council members from the private sector who will question those kind of totally ridiculous contracts. It is a shame over the last 30 years I have seen some good private sector candidates run and they have been viewed negatively by probably a lot of the same people now complaining.
Former CM set everything up to his advantage before he left. Any and all he did was to better himself. While he was on the payroll and after. He really set himself up GOOD.
And now we know why it took so long to get this information! Wow!
We as the taxpayers need to see Tony Carsons contract. Not a letter from Doug Lewis but the actual legally binding contract. You remember contracts, like the AMP OHIO contract.
This reeks of negligence on the part of council. How do you extend Anthony Carsons contract aproximately 8 months ago and then come up with this buyout package. This absolutely is buyout package as there are no other words to explain it. The city charter reads loud and clear that if he is terminated the city owes him three months wages and supposedly 3 months notice. I do not believe 3 months notice was given. There must have been grumbling on council at least a year ago, then we had an election and councilman Flock stepped down and was replaced by Councilwoman Shoop. I believe at that time the Anthony Carson haters sealed Mr Carsons fate. All that is pure speculation but I can see no other way this would happen.
Now to the renewal of the contract. How and why?
Cannot wait for the next council meeting! I hope more than a few show up or write letters to question council on this decision.
And why did it take so long to alert residents to all of this? If in fact he was fired, under what pretense?
And what about lawsuits and other Dept. Heads? Who left, who stayed, who did Carson appoint and what is their status?
How is the job search going for a new CM and will residents see that contract?
11:12
I guess my problem is that "sick" time should be used when you really are sick, in the hospital, or something similar.
This sort of sick time is nothing more than a different way of saying "vacation" or "holiday" time.
In my job, in the private sector, you were paid for your time off sick but there was no accumulating it or carrying it over from year to year. If you were sick, stay home and get well. This sort of deal just promotes people coming to work sick so they can keep accumulating hours to cash in when they leave.
Again, $62,000 in accumulated sick time?? In three years? I don't think that you could possibly use that much sick time unless the Grim Reaper was close at hand.
That is more in sick time pay than I ever made for a full year of working.
I wonder if the hourly City employees have it this good?
Just a comment, these numbers have no basis in Ohio law or city ordnances. Sick leave is not transferable from another state, only within Ohio. Ordinances provide two weeks of vacation. Obviously these payout numbers are driven by contract only. Do not find fault with Mr. Carson, 'one does not get if one does not ask'. The contract was approved by council, so if you have issues, take them to the source.
Well my estimate was pretty accurate best case 80K worst case $200K. $171,000.00 was toward the worst. By the way ask your councilman about the local business that said they were picking up a leaving town if he stayed.
If the business left the City would have lost much more. As for council and Slick Tony. He started planning his exit upon his arrival: change the way vacation is accumulated, make a policy that Directors didn't have to be at work a minimum of 40 per week (only 4per day), sick time use to have a limit..must have changed that too. Wonder if he was still watching the horse races on the Cities computer. His motto was tell council and I'll fire you before they fire me. don't give me a 3 year contract screw you I will become more obnoxious and not do anything hoping to get fired or cut a deal. yes Term he has lied to you and to the whole City you just don't know how much.council has been aware of his behavior for a long time. more to come. Every time I think of what he has done I need to take a shower.
As a public employee myself, I don't see how the sick accrual and vacation payout is mathematically possible. Never seen such a thing.
5:51 Gee's can you imagine what a pregnancy would cost? Neither have I.
3:15 yeah, you were real close? What local business? I have heard through the grapevine Mar-Bel is getting cold feet about coming here? Department heads looking to council for recourse? what is your company? and why? Plus if you witnessed so much and never did anything but go on blogs. with no facts or identity have to ask why? You and a few other's are Hell bent on destroying a man's reputation without presenting facts. Sorry I need more then an anonymous tip! Good idea you taking a shower.
2:29 Look who he was dealing with?
11:29 Sick time has been abused by public employee's for a long time.
No private company would be so liberal.
1:10 Yeah, there probably be six people instead of the usual four? To watch this type of legislation is scary.
11:45 Probably for good reason.
11:40 Look at the makeup? Fitzgerald private, Jenkins public, DiNallo public Hach private Fodor public, DeLeone public, Shoop I don't know.
Mrs. Shoop was in the private sector she was an insurance agent.
That said 4 of the 7 members are/were employed by government or a non-profit.
To echo Potter Miller's comments, how do you extend a contract and then say "never mind" a few months later?
Who is steering this ship??
Think how much could have been done with that money that would have made the 'ville a better place to live.
As Term says "it isn't their money".
Sounds like there is more to this story....was he threatening to sing like a bird on some issues council didn't want made public? Was this hush money?
7:01/3:48 I am sure we will receive a justifiable reason for all this Monday evening at 7:30 pm? Wear your boots!
Sick time I understand. If over 3 years he accrued days and he is owed that much, then we have a problem with how sick days are accumulated. It seems a bit much in terms of dollars and what sick days were intended for. That is, to be used if you were really sick and not as an augment to one's salary! And if he really resigned, is he entitled to all of these payouts?
Get Ready for the Claim to come:
Trumbull County Vindicator
Wednesday, January 31, 2007
Bogus unemployment claim disallowed for administrator
A hearing officer for the Ohio Unemployment Compensation Review Commission got it right: Former Trumbull County Administrator Tony Carson Jr. quit his job in July and wasn't entitled to the 416 a week in unemployment benefits he's been collecting since.
The remarkable thing is that anyone at the Ohio Department of Jobs and Family Services fell for Carson's outlandish claim in the first place. Carson resigned with a note saying simply: "I submit my resignation as county administrator effective 7-26-06." With that he walked off the job.
Unemployment compensation was designed as a safety net for employees who lose their jobs through no fault of their own. It's not there for people who decide that they are angry or upset or put upon and aren't going to take it anymore.
Nonetheless, Carson managed to convince a caseworker at DJFS that he was forced to resign because one of the three county commissioners to whom he answered, Paul Heltzel, was requiring him to perform in a way that would have violated Ohio law. If Carson had any proof of that claim, there's no record of him having produced it.
Carson, it should be remembered, was not a rookie in public employment. Indeed, as the county administrator he made more than 60,000 a year overseeing the work of other employees.
He had options
And yet, when he felt he had a grievance with Heltzel, he never discussed it with him. He didn't approach the other two commissioners -- who were known to support him. He didn't go to James Keating, the county's personnel officer, to say that Heltzel was violating county policies, or to the county prosecutor's office to report that a commissioner was suborning illegal acts of some kind.
No, he just up and quit, and then took a cock and bull story to DJFS supporting his claim for unemployment compensation.
We're glad that all three commissioners agreed to appeal the payments awarded to Carson. On the face of it, Carson's story that Heltzel reduced him to a bowl of quivering jelly when he raised his voice or used naughty words was silly. His claim during the first day of hearings on the county's appeal that Heltzel caused women in the commissioners office to weep and vomit was never substantiated.
The hearing officer, R. Keller Rohde, acknowledged that Heltzel was "demanding, abrasive, vulgar and loud," but ruled that Carson was not justified in quitting.
The ruling makes obvious sense. If every employee in the state could collect benefits after quitting because the boss yelled at him, the DJFS office would be overflowing with new claimants.
Carson can now start digging up the 9,568 he has to repay. And Heltzel might want to work on a management style more appropriate to the office he holds and in line with the expectations taxpayers have when they elect a professional to be county commissioner.
3:15 Nailed It. Carson threatened -I'll fire you first- on many employees. Typically when a person has a serious problem at the work place, they follow a chain of command. By taking the situation to ones supervisor (Carson) first. BUT, when your supervisor (CARSON) is the one causing you serious trouble and you have discussed it with the supervisor (CARSON), the next step should be the supervisor's boss (council). But the supervisor tells you if you pursue this and take it above me, I Will Fire YOU. How fair is that? Mr Carson was one to remind people to follow the chain of command, 1) unless it involved going to council 2) Unless it involved certain employees trying to destroy their bosses career (police department/Chief Hager, rec department and others)
First Rita...now Carson! We can only expect his/her replacement to cost us more with the expectation of getting less! This city is run very poorly. Council gets paid then abdicates everything to the Administration who seems to run it as a money mill for their pockets! Disgusting!
Well Ohio law does not regulate sick leave, every city handles it different. You all need to look at what it would have cost if he had been fired. Like severance pay , unemployement , and surly lawsuits that could be filed. I bet you what he got is much less than the other way...
4:10
Thanks for the info Tony.
BTW, unemployment would never have been an issue here because none of the criteria would have been met.
Anybody who doesn't believe this is nothing but a bribe is a fool! Wonder what council is hiding?
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