"IF I COULD TURN BACK TIME" cher
Well it appears we have suffered another tragic Monday. One soul dead, one shot and one almost raped.
I guess we will find out shortly who did what and who didn't do what?
I guess we will know shortly all the facts in this case. One a fourteen year old girl allegedly had an attempted rape by her uncle. Wonder where he draws the line at?
A home invasion of a sixty year old female public servant and by all accounts a wonderful person. Found dead by her husband, allegedly shot by the same uncle. Then an encounter with a woman with two children who he allegedly shot at five times and luckily only one bullet hitting her in the arm.
Then a report he shot at a SWAT team member, who he missed as he hid behind a rock and decided to give himself up.
All in a matter of five/six hours?
Call me naïve but I find it highly impossible this uncle doesn't have a record somewhere in the United States or Mexico. You don't go on a rampage like this cold turkey.
He was an illegal resident of Painesville for five years. Where was he employed and by whom? Judge Cicconetti asked if he had a drivers license, a birth certificate, passport or a green card? He answered no except he did have a birth certificate in Mexico. The judge really didn't have any proof who he said he was. Really who was dealing with.
The vehicle he drove to Wymans Park who was it registered to?
Where did he acquire the gun he used Monday?
Did anyone in the Hispanic community realize what a threat he posed, not only to them but his family as well as us? Did any of them see a benefit to him living in our community?
Does the Hispanic community in Painesville have any idea how far this has set back the Hispanic's back in this area? Wonder when Veronica is telling us the facts?
What exactly is the procedure Border Patrol uses to pick up illegals? Let's ask our Congressman.
I don't have any idea if this uncle was on Painesville Police Radar?
Will the open borders people come forward and explain what this community is to do next?
What do I expect next?
When the Republicans roll into Cleveland for a debate next Thursday I expect someone will mention the harsh words that the "Donald" made about illegals and if his staff has done their homework he can reply about an incident that took place less then thirty miles from where he is standing? It has it all Rape, Murder assault.
And many who feel that way will have proof of his statement.
I guess as one commenter wrote where do residents find sanctuary here in town?
We should demand to know the policies of all local law enforcement on this issue.
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Emergency Executive Session (Not open to the public)
Thursday July 30, 2015 @4:45 PM
5] To discuss matters required to be kept confidential by Federal and State Laws.
6] To discuss details of security arrangement.
Let the CYA BEGIN!
STRANGE, BUT THIS MEETING HAS BEEN CANCELLED!
posted by terminator1 @ 10:28 AM
34 Comments
34 Comments:
This is what I was told, a few years and a few PPD chiefs ago. If an illegal is stopped for a minor infraction, PPD will not/can not hold them as this town doesn't have the ways and means to hold them for ICE/Border Patrol or deposit them back to Mexico. So, we no longer have a Painesville jail? The county jail is full? ICE/Border Patrol is too busy? Well, Well, Well, Look what just happened because of all their lame excuses. (California, what was their excuse)Cicconetti is NOW upset? Where has he been all this time? Never heard most politicians publicly stand out against this, until now? Wake up America, this town needs a BIG BROOM.
There are so many things wrong in what happened that it is hard to know where to start.
I have long maintained that I fully understand the reason workers come here to work in the fields. After all, they can aspire to more than they could ever get at home. However, they are still here illegally. IMO, the real "culprits" are the people who hire them. If they hire ANY illegals, the owner of the business should be arrested and jailed. It wouldn't take but jailing one or two of them and they would not be hiring people who should not be here or be employed here.
There are procedures for becoming a citizen. Plenty of immigrants have followed it and it worked for them. Is it difficult? I have no idea BUT it is the law. Don't like it or don't think it is fair? Stay wherever you came from. Simple answer.
Come here and have children who, by law, are American citizens and think that should give you a free pass? WRONG! You go back where you came from. Don't want a broken family? Simple answer is to take the children with you. Your illegal butt along with your legal children should not become my (tax paying) problem.
Now we have a shooter/rapist/murderer who has spent 5 years in our area under the radar??? How is that even remotely possible? Looks like a LOT of law enforcement people have just closed their eyes or been told to ignore the illegals.
BTW, when did being here illegally cease to be a crime??
I would bet a LOT of money that the next time the Sheriff pulls over an illegal, they won't be quite so quick to let them go.
We deserve better protection for our tax dollars.
With your addition, you are likely SO correct.
I would love to have been in on those calls/emails/whatever.
"Let's all make sure we tell the citizens the same story, we look less confused that way".
CYA indeed.
I've heard many times there is a double standard when dealing with the Hispanic community. This appears to be the case with Juan Razo. Mr. Razo was stopped by the Lake County Sheriff's Department on July 7, 2015 for suspicious behavior. It was determined that he did not have a drivers license and had no current identification and no proof of insurance. He admitted that he was in this country illegally. There was a police report but NO CITATION! The deputy let him free after informing the Federal Authorities. Now tell me, if a white, black or purple adult gets stopped by a deputy sheriff with similar circumstances will the deputy just look the other way? NO WAY! That Deputy should be disciplined. If it is the Policy of the Sheriff then Dan Dunlap should resign! Local Authorities don't have the right deport, but they have the moral and legal duty to enforce local law.
Maybe The Donald will hold a rally at Helen Hazen before the debate. I was down at the park Sunday with my family, and I made a comment on how we seemed like the only non-hispanics there. Little did I know what would take place 20 hours later. I can't believe this hasn't received the coverage on the national news yet. This isn't much different than the girl in San Fran.
Veronica Dahlberg in her statement from HOLA todayis saying he has been waiting for his green card for 12 years, why did he not learn some English during that time !
I find Cicconetti's outrage ludicrous. He's the one that for years felt oh-so-sorry for the poooor illegals. He lamented about their lack of drivers licenses, and about the poor things "living in the shadows." He's the one who slapped them on the wrist when they showed up in his court because, you know.....the poor things. He had a nice write-up in a local rag sympathizing with them, at the same time many of the local LEGALS were fighting them. DO YOU GET IT NOW, CICCONETTI? And for anyone doubting the Hispanic's rape and murder rates, look it up. America has enough legal murderers and rapists, we don't need millions of them here without our permission. They've even beheaded Americans on this soil, as well as on their own, but you don't hear about that in the newspapers. The media isn't even hardly saying that the reason Trump has so much support is because of his fight against the illegals -- they gloss right over that fact. We're idiots in this country...Mexico certainly doesn't let Americans illegally into THEIR country. If Americans don't stand up now, there will be enough legal Hispanics, because of our misreading of the 14th amendment, to take over all of America and open all of the borders. Who was it that was advocating for all the illegals to come here to Painesville along with Abby Delamotte? Let's get them on the news and the radios now, and we can ask them why they did what they did to us and to America in general.
2:18 Sorry, I've know Judge Cicconetti most of my life and he is a quality person as well as one of the best Muni Judges in the country. To blame Chick for unsecured borders, employing the illegals causing many of them to show up here in Painesville. Please don't confuse compassion for indifferent.
Where would we house them who would pay for them? You do realize the city would have to pay the county a fee to have them incarcerated? Not reimbursed by the Federal government, who might or might not show up. No matter which party was in power.
I can only have nightmares of who might replace the Judge.
11:37 raises a great point.
Why was the man not given so much as a ticket for no license or insurance?
Who is responsible for the decision to release him?
If it was the Deputy who pulled him over, he should be disciplined.
Was it one of his bosses?
If so, they deserve discipline.
Was it someone in the Feds?
If so, they are directly responsible for what happened two days ago.
There must be a paper trail. Find out where it leads and take action.
Looks like our City Council is getting ready to cover their butts!
4:05 He was stopped by a deputy for acting suspiciously. Chances are he was on foot.
Well the Feds didn't want him and he had committed no crime, so they cut him lose.
Sorry, I'm blaming the Hispanic community why didn't anyone come forward with knowledge of this person? One of the main themes in town is that there is open dialogue with authorities.
Hate to say it but I knew the finger pointing would start.
This is 2:18 to Term 3:53. Sorry, I stand by my statements about Cicconetti. I believe I am recalling correctly that he said right in the newspaper about how he took it easy on them when they showed up in court, because, geeze, the poor things. THAT'S A LOCAL JUDGE TALKING. NO EXCUSE. And now we see how that creep was pulled over and let go for all those violations, when an American citizen would have been arrested on the spot, and had years of consequences and thousands of dollars to pay for those infractions. Cicconetti is as culpable as anyone. And clearly the police have been told to keep their hands off of the illegals, as all the legals in this town have known for years. And who was the person who spoke out for the illegals to come to Painesville on the radio, etc. with Abby? Hada? Horvath? Who was that? I'm sure someone remembers. Let's name them here, so when people pass them on the streets they can thank them. I sincerely doubt that the police officers are letting these criminals go because they want to. I am quite sure the orders come from higher up. City manager? The fact that they let that guy go to get back on the roads with no insurance, license, etc. with innocent Americans is scary enough, let alone the larger implications, which we now can all see. And Cicconetti is just as responsible as anyone. He stated publicly, for all to see, how he just had no problems with the illegals. Make all the excuses for him that you want, but not one of them sits right with me. I was outraged when I read that article, and I still am. And now he sits indignant on the bench because an illegal is here and is committing crimes. Gee, who knew?
Term,
Perhaps I am wrong but my impression was that he was driving.
If not, then I stand corrected.
He was acting "suspiciously" and was stopped by a Deputy??
Really?
The last few times I had a reason to call for a Deputy, it took them forever to show up.
Heck, I can't even imagine a Deputy getting out of his car for suspicious behavior.
Instead they would likely drive right on by.
4:30 I guess we are all a little responsible as all of us. Again most of these people are hard working souls just wanting a better life. Not lured here by the Judge, you or me. Someone wanted cheap labor and customers. What's that word "Capitalism"? Lenin once claimed capitalist will sell us the rope to use, so we could hang them.
Judge Cicconetti if anything is showing compassion not only to Hispanics but also Blacks and Whites. Sorry it must be our upbringing.
When Cicconetti made that public statement about the illegals, it was at a time when people who ran this city were calling out for the illegals to come here. It was also at the same time that some American citizens in this city and around the country had the courage and wisdom and enough love of their country to get out into the streets and march and speak out against the illegals. What Cicconetti did was a complete slap in the face of all those brave citizens and for all the laws of our country. And now he's just so shocked.
Term 5:02. As in what? You and Cicconetti must have had a better upbringing than the people who are against illegal immigration? Tell me you just didn't say that! And sorry... Cicconetti is a judge. He was hired to uphold the laws. A judge. A judge who was siding with the city leaders and the business owners who were advocating for the illegals. But good thing he was brought up better, as were you, than anyone who wants the country's laws upheld. Unbelievable.
Where is this article you speak of by the judge? He only has the power to sentence people for what they are charged/convicted of. If they are just convicted of a minor offense (disorderly conduct, speeding, etc.), he can't throw the book at them just because they are illegally here, then turn around and just give a small fine to a white guy convicted of the same offense. You are way off base here. The judge has no power to set policy regarding immigration or the present of illegals.
We are all a little responsible? Who are you Mr Term?Horvath and Delamotte? NO I am not responsible for them or this and neither are most of these posts that agree. Our flawed government is responsible - from here all the way to the top. I want the laws followed, fines, jail time, deportation. That's what I stand for, not looking away. My sympathies to the Kostlenik family.
11:21 for president 11:37 for v. president.
5:15 Not saying that at all. I don't know if compassion for fellow humans is even taught. Tell me would you want a Judge with compassion or a hanging judge for everyone not just illegals? No one mentioned being better than anyone. Some just may view life without blinders on. Those who come here illegally wouldn't come if someone else wasn't offering a better life and opportunity to them. Isn't it wrong to lure someone?
5:59 Do you know or care the to know the immigration status of the hotel worker that cleans your room, ever ask? The person washing dishes in a restaurant you frequent? Who's doing your lawn service? That temp that your company has hired from an agency.
4:32 if he was driving without a license he should have been arrested as well as the car towed, and a court appearance in his future.
4:05 Sheriff report shows he was sitting in a stopped vehicle and was very uncooperative to the deputy.
Term,
So, if I understand this correctly, he was in a car but was not driving?
Apparently the car just dropped from the sky.
The Deputy must not have known what he/she should do.
He was "very uncooperative" and so he wasn't detained or arrested?
Next time an officer pulls you or me over, we should try being uncooperative.
Think it will make them let me go?
I suspect I would be spending some time on E Erie St in a room with bars.
I can hardly wait to hear the excuses start to roll!
11:42 There coming !
5:19...I'm way off base. I don't think so. Here are some quotes from the July 18-24, 2007 Scene Magazine. I believe the judge was quoted saying similar things in local newspapers also. He can correct me if I am wrong. This is from the article The Superior Americans by Jared Klaus. I'll just print part of the article.
...In fact, it's the Mexicans' need to get to work that usually lands them in trouble. On any given day Cicconetti sees as many as dozens for driving without a license. He lets most off with a small fine. And they pay it, which is more than the judge can say for most misbehavers. Entire extended families chip in for fines and costs -- anything they have to do to take care of it.
"We rarely have to chase any of the Hispanics around here," Cicconetti says.
If the anti-immigration protesters think Painesville law enforcement is turning a blind eye to illegals, they're right. Why make problems for peaceful, hard-working people?
"Mexicans are a very low percentage of our arrests...They're family-oriented. Most of them have jobs," says Chief Smith.
He has no qualms about laying out his indifference in plain English: "We don't care what your status is."
Now this is me talking again. As I said, I do believe Cicconetti was interviewed for other papers, etc., and this was his stance. Now how many Americans get off with a small fine for driving without a license? They end up with years of complications and thousands of dollars in fines. And you can bet if these illegals are driving without licenses, then they also have no insurance, and probably most of them can't even read the signs on the roads, or know the laws of driving here. It has been a conspiracy and complicity of many people in this town to bring all the illegals here and to make them welcome once they get here, and Cicconetti, our judge, who is supposed to be upholding the law, is not the least of the offenders. I would suggest he worry about the legal citizens who might be harmed by illegals driving and living among us, and not the poor little illegals.
"5:59 Do you know or care the to know the immigration status of the hotel worker that cleans your room, ever ask? The person washing dishes in a restaurant you frequent? Who's doing your lawn service? That temp that your company has hired from an agency."
A few these questions can be answered very easily.
I have no idea as to the immigration status of the hotel worker, the dish washer, or the temp who is hired. That is responsibility (or at least it should be) of the company that hired them. As a consumer, I have to assume that all laws were followed and only people meeting the letter of the law are employed in this country. Simplistic? Of course it is but that is my view.
Regarding the lawn maintenance, I hire a local guy who grew up in Kirtland, lives in eastern Lake County now, and he hires helpers who are guys who are in college and need summertime employment. Not once has he showed up with a foreign worker.
1:26 Scene Magazine? The one with the strange ads in it? First Jared Klaus a very left way left leaning writer who in many of his stories well, sorta adds to a quote.
I believe at the time both the Judge and Police Chief claimed they were misquoted. with a retraction printed later. Now these two people don't need me to defend them, they can do that on their own. But after reading that article did it seem odd to you that they would make public comments like these?
4:59 I am glad you ASSUME everyone is doing things legally. You answered your own question. How do you know those housekeeping jobs weren't outsourced? How do you know those workers aren't paid under the table? Haven't you ever wondered? Was your conscience fine with the fact you simply assume things were above board? Yes at times I have assumed many of the same things you have. I have had my eyes opened to some revelations.
The judge did claim he was misquoted but no retraction was ever printed. He never requested a retraction from Scene Magazine. I always thought that was odd. If I was that badly misquoted you bet your sweet butt I would be demanding a retraction. He did not. That tells me he wasn't so misquoted at all. I remember in the article him saying that they don't do anything wrong except "smoke a little ganja". Well, that is wrong. I am glad the judge is outraged now, but he should have been long before this. It was only a matter of time before one of the slap on the wrists he gave out came back to bite him in the butt. This guy may not have gone through his court, but I'm sure there are plenty out there that the judge let go that will be doing something that will come back to haunt the judge.
Term,
4:59 again.
I don't think I answered any questions at all.
I have NO idea how these folks are hired. That is up to the company that employees them. I have no way of knowing.
Paid under the table? I don't think I brought that up but how would I learn that? Again, that is employer/employee stuff.
I don't spend a minute of my time wondering how people got a job or how they are paid. I do wonder how our social support system is going to continue to pay benefits to people who are either here illegally or who have not earned those benefits.
What I can tell you, because I saw it yesterday, is that there are a TON of migrant workers at the nurseries on Townline Rd. I would "guesstimate" that I saw 3 to 4 dozen all within 100 yards of the road. Who knows how many are in the fields?
Now, let's suppose ICE or INS (or whatever they are called this week) shows up. How many of these people would be running for the woods? Maybe none but I doubt it.
Isn't the job of ICE to find situations like this and take action? If I can see the workers, they sure as heck can see them.
The same logic applies in hotels or any other place you mentioned. We pay people to enforce the law. Why don't they do their job?
Again, it comes back to arresting and jailing any employer who hires undocumented workers. Otherwise why have the laws?
4:59 Maybe the answer is that you spend a minute of your time? You obvious see the field workers as illegal but that person who sold you some French fries at PITP as not? being Your problem? If we all took your attitude I guess we don't have a problem.
Have you ever seen an employer arrested and jailed? In the area? I haven't so there must not be a problem. Sleep well my friend.
Term,
You are seeing and interpreting things that I did not say and are not there.
I said that I saw several dozen workers at a nursery on Townline Rd. Did I say, anywhere, that they are illegal? Read it again and more carefully this time. I asked if ICE were to show up, how many workers would be running. Maybe none, maybe all, who knows? That is my point. There are a lot of workers out there and absolutely, in authority, no one asks any questions.
French fries at PITP? Sorry but I wasn't there so that is a question without merit. My feeling would be EXACTLY the same as it is concerning workers in the field.
I am not clear about what you think my attitude is. To make it very clear, my attitude is that we pay federal employees to monitor people coming into this country. It is my opinion that they are doing a poor job in almost every way. If the borders are open, why are we paying people to do nothing?
No, I have not seen an employer jailed and that is what I think is missing. If they know that they will be jailed for hiring illegal workers, do you really think that practice will continue?
BTW, your second line in that paragraph doesn't make any sense to me.
I sleep well, I hope you do as well.
Term 8:19. Look at you blaming 4:59...and you say Dahlberg evades issues. It is not the job of the average citizen to wonder and ask questions of every employee they see, so to blame this problem back on regular, legal citizens is just ludicrous. You, on the other hand, back when a lot of legal citizens were fighting all of this, said you knew of employers who were hiring illegals. You never went and did any picketing or fighting yourself, but you did degrade the people who were fighting, and you did call them out for years for not picketing the companies that you said YOU knew were hiring illegals. So lay off 4:59, as your arguments to them are ridiculous for one thing and secondly, you actually knew of infractions and chose to attack innocent people instead of doing something about it yourself.
7:41. Yes, I agree with you. I also believe I read a quote from Cicconetti that said he felt sorry for the illegals because they couldn't drive and they had to ride bicycles around town. I believe he said it in sympathy for them getting caught without licenses. I don't see that quote in the Scene Magazine article, so he must have been quoted in another publication also, outside of Scene. Then I remember that some criminals were around his house and were planning to go after his family or something. His outrage over the situation was understandable, but I was livid, because his attitude, as a judge, about the illegals was one of sympathy, and he mentioned no worry about the legal citizens. But man, when someone was around HIS family. And as 7:41 mentions, all of this has implications and can come back to haunt people, but it's not the judge in this instance, is it...in this instance it is innocent citizens like Mrs. Kostelnik, who has sadly lost her life and her poor family, and the rest of the people he has injured.
Term 8:19. What do you mean it's partially 4:59's fault? Don't be ridiculous. And previously you said your life view of illegals was one without blinders on. I guess that means that everyone who has been fighting to get them out has blinders on and just wants them out, but you have the full view. It's quite the opposite. You have failed to see the entire repercussions of all these illegals on America and Americans, only seeing the "poor little people who come here to make a better living." Too bad it had to come home like this for you to start speaking out against this invasion. Let's ask Abby and Horvath to come to a council meeting, and let's ask them how they like what they did now.
Term, you're actually blaming the problem on the average citizen and not the Painesville City Council, the police, the state elected and appointed officials, the federal elected and appointed officials OR THE ILLEGALS, and telling 4:59 "sleep well my friend." What kind of creepy crap is that?
7:52 Hardly, it seems none of us seem to be vigilant enough to making sure our public servants follow the laws on the books. Sleep well? It seems everyone believes since we fund and have HLS and others we can rest assured everything is handled properly.
4:34 Not blaming 4:59 at all just when can we expect procedures followed?
7:41 So who's going to drive these people to the border? The Judge?
1:51 You have no idea who I contacted or what I did. I will tell you I learned a lot about hitting a brick wall.
10:39 I believe we are on the same page.
4:59 thank you from 5:59, no I do not question those employees and I used to put my faith and trust in those hiring. HA! silly me. I no longer trust them, any administration, law enforcement, etc. that will look the other way to allow those people to break our laws. Laws the average typical White person has to abide. So what makes them so darn special? Aside that nobody has the time to do things correct with them and there is always finger pointing between local, federal, ICE and border patrol. Well I'm sorry that an individual of MY community died because of those peoples indifference.
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