"ALREADY GONE" eagles
Interesting column in this Friday's Lake County Tribune. Rose Moore a columnist penned this story on "Remembering an old downtown at Christmas..."
Rose's article was about living in Painesville before urban renewal. She painted a picture of what many others including myself remember.
Here is an excerpt from her column.
GONE FOR MANY years now, the old downtown was sacrificed-- like so many other Main Streets USA -- to the siren song of "free" government money for teardown and "renewal. The Ma and Pa stores were razed to make way for a reconstruction that never happened. In the process, visible history and long-term businesses were destroyed, and a certain spirit was mortally wounded.
In the brash "newer is better" era that was beginning to descend upon us, it was federal and local government that sounded the death knell for the old downtown. And now I wonder, is it only the people of my older generation who are left to remember it and pay homage to it in our hearts?
Among the people who were there-- store owners and citizens alike--urban renewal was a touchy subject. It proceeded nonetheless, perhaps with good intentions. As the buildings fell to the wrecking ball, who among the spectators can forget the people cheering the surprisingly sturdy resistance of the building that had apparently deemed "to old to live"? And who can forget the heckling and anger aimed towards the demolition crews? Some of us actually wept.
Rose Moore at 440-350-9818 or by email at randrmoore@gmail.com
I guess it's important to keep around what Rose calls visible history. At the same time those among us who can remember growing up in Painesville in the 50's and early 60's know and realize no matter how much you presently claim to a downtown Painesville it's just a figment of your imagination. It's like claiming to have written the Bible and leaving out the whole old testaments. Parking an ambulance at Riverside Cemetery just encase a person there needs medical attention.
Face facts it is more important to keep 239 Mentor Ave. or the NYC Railroad Station. Steele Mansion proves that fact. More important then making pretty a few streets in downtown that for the most part sit across from an empty lot or parking spaces.
I believe looking back even the old hotel could have been reused as small apartments on the top three floor, as a hotel on maybe two stories and we would have a restaurant and party center on the ground floor. Or even used for other purposes. The former administration had a blind eye to that building even letting local SWAT teams destroy the interior. As to make sure foolish ideas like this did not flourish.
We can pick and chose projects or keep shoveling money into two blocks on Main Street.
posted by terminator1 @ 8:43 PM
33 Comments
33 Comments:
This is exactly the point I was making when, in a previous post, I said that the white majority is responsible for the direction Painesville has taken.
There have been very few black Council members and no Hispanic Council members. Kind of narrows down the "blame" doesn't it?
On that note, the more I see Streetscape the more I realize how much money was wasted. Simply amazing. We can spend money to rebuild a street in front of empty stores BUT we can not find money (spelled "grants") to rebuild/update the buildings that are our history.
No one comes to Painesville to shop any more.
8:09 I don't know who you are or how old you are. Take it from me there was a time when Painesville had a vibrant downtown. Even the alleys where the delivery trucks like Islay's parked small businesses like city delivery. Know this downtown group can put up a façade but there are still many around that remember. Toyland, Whaley's Hardware, and many of us will carry those memories to our graves.
I think Rose says it best the visual history once it's gone it's gone.
I understand the reason and process of the downtown group there's just not enough left of Painesville to make it viable. It seems we are pouring money for a select few maybe because we can or we have no idea what to do. have Party in the Park, Taste of Painesville but remember those events will not make a downtown viable again.
I guess none of know who or what we are to be?
Me I want to go in a different direction. I am tired of pretending this idea has a happy outcome.
Term,
I think that perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying.
I remember those days of a vibrant downtown too. Some of the Doug Pykonen photos in Victoria Place (or whatever it is called today) show it very well. People and cars were everywhere even at night.
Drive through downtown at night now and what do you find? Empty streets!
I agree, we need a new direction. What we have been doing is not working.
We are on the same page.
SWAT?
I remember the fire department burning down the old laundry to build the hotel. Man, was that a hot fire.
That old house by the bike trail would be nice to keep if it was sound enough to renew. But, renew for what? A residence?
I'll ask again, who owns the rail station?
Steele mansion is really looking good. I wish them the best.
10:27 I'm trying to find out.
Steele Mansion shows you what can be accomplished.
8:46 Yes you and I may be on the same page the people holding the purse strings are reading a different book.
Until enough people clue them in expect the same old same old.
I'm offended by post 8:09 - and racist? It's the "white" folks fault this town fell and is still declining? No bloody way whoever you are. Perhaps if you are non Caucasian you should run for council and make some changes too.
Yes, who does own the RR station. AND why aren't they coming to city officials for help? Why just you & Mr. Flock?
I agree with many in yearning for the days of the old downtown which unfortunately are long past. I do have to disagree with you however about the demolition of the old hotel (American House/Holiday Inn). First off it was 60's motel construction lacking both charm and character. Those structures were built for a 30-40 year life.
Over the past 40 years it has stood largely vacant If you recall someone reopened it as the Painesville Plaza hotel in late 90's or early 2000's, it lasted a few months but just was not viable. Lake Erie College looked at it for dorms and I believe a couple of groups aimed towards senior living all found that the basic architecture of the building was unworkable. I know firsthand of an architectural group in Cleveland developed plans for a project to rehab the building into apartments but ended up finding it cost prohibitive.
Steele Mansion shows if you are wealthy enough to do something you can. I believe someone in the family is or was some type of a doctor. Maybe it took a village to get this project by all family members pooling their money. Maybe those involved are in debt up to their eyeballs to accomplish their dreams. None is really my business but the average Joe just can not do what they are doing. Most of us do what we can to survive to have shelter, food, heat and heaven forbid a trip to the doctor. Don't you think if the persons that owned the home on Mentor Ave. had the funds to maintain it they wouldn't have let it go so bad?
6:10/7:37 Forget visible history?
Yes Steele Mansion was supported by a private family.
It has always seemed to me when you demolish a building the reason being something "NEW" was coming? People don't seem to be in to big a rush to rebuild in Painesville? You have to wonder if the hospital site will be developed in not years but decades.
I have to wonder what or who decides a buildings charm or character? Does the new drug stores possess these? Washington St. Apt.? My sister who visit's once a year remarked every time I visit I something new missing.
Where is the charm and character in Painesville presently? Please I know a half block of Main St. with the two end building's gone a black plastic tarp in one window and how many empty storefronts? Some charm.
Your right though most including me do the best we can to survive between Sunday and Saturday.
A landlord in the area told me that the Steele Mansion Lady has more money than brains. He obviously thinks you cant be smart AND follow a dream. Don't care....
1:04 Let's just say that I believe Arthur and Carol Shamakian have both more money and brains than that landlord you spoke with. Yes they are following a dream that I believe that they will realize.
Once at a council meeting I asked Mr. Shamakian "are you sure you want to do this, it seems very expensive?"
His reply to me was even if the Mansion never makes a dime the Shamakians will still have Christmas.
I think a few of those landlords and residents are just a little jealous of what has been accomplished with the Steele Mansion. Not even giving any thought how that one building has increased the value of their property. Seems someone is benefiting from Art's and Carols brains and money?
I'm also very disappointed in the way our City has lost its luster. Things keep disappearing. I would love to see our community rise up and say "no more". What is gone is gone and may never come back but lets save whats left. The train Station should be a top priority.
I keep hearing that the Senior Center is unhappy with Council and the new CM. They are looking for property in the Township. What a terrible loss it would be to lose the The Senior Center.
and This may seem to be a petty complain but last summer I called City Hall and asked for an application for a "Pretty in Painesville Award" and was told that the program no longer existed. I asked why and a gentleman name Gary said he didn't know but that some one from The City Manager's Office would call me back. I'm still waiting.
If we can reward a bakery, winery and then another bakery why can't we acknowledge a resident who improves his property? While I'm at it what ever happened to the Unity in the Community Party. Lord knows, we could use a little more "Pretty" and a little more "Unity" in Painesville.
5:42
This is the 8:09 and I stand by what I wrote. I am VERY white and have lived in the City since the late 50's so make of that what you want. The facts are indisputable. Whether you agree or not is of no importance, you can not change history. Painesville has largely been allowed to get where it is by the white majority. Name a single place that a black or Hispanic who made a decision that changed the course of history in Painesville.
Has anyone of a different color or background been our City Manager?
A department head?
Has any Hispanic person been on Council.
Nope, all of the decisions have been made by white people.
Show me where I am wrong.
5:42 I guess a question to be asked is why haven't they run for office? Again did anyone submit an application for a department head? Seems like you are looking for new blood?
3:36 The place to ask those questions is with one of the seven council people. Until recently the CM ran the show. Our new city manager seems to go by the book taking leadership from council who as I have watched so far leaves him blind.
It's way past the time to tell those 7 "No More"
For the record:
Hotel had several redevelopers in it and was to expensive to renovate about $32,000.00 per room to bring up to code.. and they couldn't make their money back.
Hospital was falling apart from the inside out.. millions to restore and update.. and their leadership didn't want the clientele
Pretty in Painesville has always been a PCIC event- canceled due to lack of participation, imagine that.
You can blame the last several administrations, the one that's in place, and the next, and there after. It is very easy for us to sit back and complain - not so easy to go out and do -when those on this blog go out and do something other then complain then the community may improve if not then you can just sit and continue to complain
Just Plain Speaking
7:51, there have been several blacks on council. So what is your point about white people who have mostly had control over the city? As I said, we have had blacks on council. Your point is that it is white's fault, and not the fault of minorities, or what? I don't even get why you are making that point.
3:47 Where to start? Pure as the driven snow? Well the hospital came to the city looking for help to procure some property for what hospital expansion.... or maybe a place to store the rubble?
Hotel The then city manager did everything in her power to see that NOTHING she didn't want got in that building. Even to the point of taking it off the tax rolls by assuming ownership. Pretty in Painesville? Another situation for the city administration to take credit for someone else's idea?
Some of you around here will take a lot of time before you realize the damage caused by that 15 year rein of CM. That will probably take over 30 years to correct if we even can.
3:53
Let's see if I can explain this in such a way that you can understand.
" there have been several blacks on council"
Several?? Really, several? In how many years and how many at any one time?
"So what is your point about white people who have mostly had control over the city?"
Mostly had control or total control? try total control.
"Your point is that it is white's fault, and not the fault of minorities, or what? I don't even get why you are making that point."
Yep, now you got it. It is really hard to be responsible for something when you had no input into the decision making process.
Let me make this perfectly clear. I am blaming the former CM and the Councils that served her for not looking out for the best interests of the City. You can decide how many blacks and Hispanics were involved in that time.
If that offends you, rather than what they have done, then I guess I am wasting time trying to help you understand.
3:47
That's about right. Same everywhere. Easy to bla bla bla. But to go ramrod something good, not so much.
8:23 All I'll add is the Black and Hispanic apathy is as bad as the White citizenry around here.
For the most part any city literature show an almost all White town?
Hispanics may not have physically been on council, but make no mistake about it. They had influence. Veronica Dahlberg had her poisonous tentacles entwined with Rita's. She influenced a lot that happened. Same with Delamotte. I will never understand why Rita chose to align with VD rather than with the tax paying citizens of Painesville, but she did, and we are suffering the consequences.
Bernie Hamilton and Sidney Poitier lived in Painesville for a time. They're black fella's from Hollywood. Made some movies here. Then there was the white Playboy Bunny who wrote about how she didn't like our blue collar town. Wonder what ever happened to her.
I can't believe some of Steele Mansion-bashing going on! I'll never, ever have the resources to do what the Shamakians are doing, but so what? At least they're doing something positive for Painesville. The public relations value of the Steele Mansion to the city is incalculable. And I hope this project is a resounding success beyond the Shamakians' greatest hopes. Bringing in people with the kind of money who can afford to stay there is money spent on Painesville businesses! I can't believe how petty and small-minded people are here. No wonder Painesville has been so stagnant for decades!
2:47 AMEN! Painesville seem to not want success. Steele Mansion has done and will do more for Painesville than any "streetscape".
12:22 Sidney Poitier lived here? Bernie Hamilton made a movie here. That Playboy Bunny who was a few years behind me at Harvey as I remember had some unkind remarks about Painesville.
9:47 To be a fly on the wall.
8:23, it's still a ridiculous point. It's my experience that blacks vote for blacks, so if there had been more blacks that ran for council, then they probably would have been elected. Nobody can make people run for office. And your point is still that it is the fault of White people that this town is crap, and that it has nothing to do with Blacks or Hispanics because there weren't enough of them in charge? Sorry, still not buying it. It's a point about nothing. I guess your point is that the reputation of a bad black population in Painesville (I have no idea if that is still valid, but it does still exist, and that reputation has been around for at least 30 years that I know of), and the fact that the town is overrun by illegal Mexicans - with more showing up every day - has had nothing to do with this town not doing well. If that is what you are thinking, and your point is that it was Whites in charge, so, therefore, it is all White's fault, then I'm still not buying it. It's a pointless point in my opinion. 1)The people in charge of this town have made bad mistakes for decades. 2)The town had a bad reputation for decades before the illegals showed up because of the black population and crime. 3)The town is now overrun by illegals. In my opinion, there are 3 different issues here, and trying to say that the minorities weren't in power is a pointless point. Also, show me one black on council in Painesville that did a better job than the Whites. That person doesn't exist either, as they have all been mutually useless and bad for the city.
12-28 @5:42 I ALREADY SAID
"Perhaps if you are non Caucasian you should run for council and make some changes too". Ms. Becks and Mr. Fountain are two that come to mind immediately, and I remember all of the negative comments and verbal abuse about both of these people. Along the lines of Becks only doing for herself and her people. Fountain-missing meetings and not doing enough for his ward. Hispanics run for office? They don't want the unwanted attention brought to them. Remember the St Mary's basement hideout?
12/31 @5PM I agree with you. Stop blaming others if you are not willing to get on council and make the changes.
Iam going to step in here in the 70s Thomas Curry and his group was on council along with a very hard working person named Hall,who was black. I had dealing with Mr. Hall who was a dream to work with. He was on for a long time and did good work. Then there was a black council member from Ceaderbrook , whom did a good job until he became ill, and had to back down. He work with the infamous Rita & Hada crew. Also while Warner was on a black female also was elected. So that's two that work with Hada and company. I think there were more but can't get this old mind working very well. The fate of this city in held by places like The Great Lakes Mall, that killed small town shopping. In thing like news papers that only print bad thing that happen in town, because it sells papers . This town had a sterling rep. Until all the above happen and oh yes when Les Nero tore told town down. This can be turned around it is just going to take some time,money,and people willing to work at it. I Truely believe this and have invested a good part of money in a house because we felt it was a good investment.
(:56 I don't believe it was Nero but a city manager named Dale Hensiel (sp) that sought urban renewal funds. As mentioned before success is not measured by "good intentions." but results.
Dale was the city manager for a short time and working under him was Mr. Nero as the community development director,.. When Dale left Nero moved in and started tearing everything down without a plan to rebuild ....
^yes, I believe Painesville's fate was at least in part decided by Dale Helsel (his son was in my class at Walnut; I believe they skipped town before we went to Harvey). I don't remember Nero. Was he just prior to Helsel? But let's face it, this comment (9:56) really sums up the problem: "The fate of this city in held by places like The Great Lakes Mall, that killed small town shopping." Also, the preservationist movement really didn't get underway in a big way until after the 60's, so demolition of the old was the default solution. Historic buildings were not treasured in the same way they are today. Sadly though, there was no need to tear down so much downtown. It was all such an act of desperation.
9:56 The only part of (9:56) comment I can't agree with is how do you explain Willoughby, Chardon even Geneva?
Seems the other city in the area that met the same fate as Painesville, Ashtabula which bought into urban renewal. Again good intentions does not mean success.
"The preservationist movement has been around for over 100 years. Ever been to Colonial Williamsburg?
The truth is why Painesville keeps spinning it's wheels is that it has a very low annual income among it's residents. White, Black, Hispanics.
Term, these places you brought up are different .than we are because they did not tear down their town to make new. They kept the old and improved it. Like ChRgin Falls did. Also 6:53 Dale was before Nero. Nero was around for several years Rita came in after he retired.
I seem to recall someone named McDonald at the cities helm too. Anyone else?
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