"ONLY YOU KNOW AND I KNOW" bonnie & delaney
Who decides some of this stuff?
By now most of you have received the August edition of the much heralded Painesville Pride. First off one sentence grabbed me.
-Property tax is deductible off your income tax.
First what income tax and how?
Well not city income tax? Federal income tax maybe? Yes you can deduct property tax off your federal income tax IF you itemize your deductions on a long form 1040. Well if you take the standard deductions not so. Is this added to make it sound like it won't cost you anything?
-In 2006, the cost of asphalt was approximately $24.00 per ton, now it costs approximately $73.00 a ton.
- In 2006 cow manure cost approximately $5.00 a ton and now it cost approximately $14.00 a ton, what's your point? What were you doing with the money in 2006 that you weren't buying more asphalt? Oh, isn't that the time we hired an assistant city manager to spell our overworked city manager?
-The funds generated from the Street Improvement Levy will NOT be used to subsidize salaries of City employee's nor can the funds be used to purchase or repair any equipment.......
Well that's kinda true. Let's say this road levy would have passed last November. The City had decided in the 2013 budget to fund the road repair of Charlotte St. for $150,000. After the levy passed they could have taken money from the levy and repaired Charlotte St. What happens to the $150,000 out of the budget set aside for that street? With the stroke of a pen from council that money could have been sent back into the general fund and be used for who knows what? More Lawnmowers for Lee? Purchase another backhoe, how many of those do we currently own? It's not a street levy its a general fund levy and they must be honest with their claims.
When this PAC comes to your door ask them if these facts are true. Ask them to show you their drivers license to verify where they live in Painesville. Only around 20% will be able to do that.
Since this was presented as educational, you have to wonder why no mention of the Ohio 2013 budget any government body will no longer receice a 12% rollback on NEW levies? Seemed telling you something will cost you more would seem important? Let's call these articles 'selective' information.
At the end of the article this was printed.
* The information above is for educational purposes.
I will do them one better. I'll sign my name to this response, something there article didn't do!
Angelo A. Cimaglio
posted by terminator1 @ 5:24 AM
30 Comments
30 Comments:
Yep, I am 100% in agreement with you. I read the same words and all I could think was "really?".
I guess the writer must have been thinking that no one will see or question these little half-truths so it is okay to include them.
How much "education" is there when the info provided is not accurate?
Your comparison with manure is quite accurate. We were paying for things (asphalt, trucks, gas, salaries, etc.) in 2006 but in Painesville everything seems to be delayed or kicked down the road. The roads sure weren't being fixed in 2006. But, I can't be blamed if something goes wrong AFTER my employment is over, right?
That same paper made mention of 15 police cars in the fleet. On any given day I can drive through the City Hall parking lot and see 13 or 14 of them sitting there. One has to ask, why have so many when they are not being driven?
Like you, I have to ask why no mention of the State cut-backs. That is a BIG part of the problem and I am kind of surprised that no community has taken the State to court over it.
Noticed yesterday the Gage Building now has a sign in front advertising 10 dorm rooms available in building. I guess the black tie, by invitation only grand opening did not work out. How can that property in downtown go from seeking business tenants (at one point read they had a coffee shop going in to main floor and were looking for office space tenants upstairs) to advertising for student residents. What is it zoned and how does that fit with the downtown vision?
6:37 Look at the bright side this could become the next 'Animal House". Need to find out more? This Thursday's Planning Commission will 'Define' a family? I also noticed on September 11,2013 Chester's Restaurant will be up for auction.
Still no clue on the former hospital site, and what, where, or are the plans for the old hotel.
This is Painesville's form of community development. There could even be a new board game for all this? Reverse Monopoly. Instead of acquiring building we just tear things down. Who ends up with nothing wins in the end.
6:08 This is what is called education from only one side of what's going on. It will be interesting if anyone disputes any of this?
So I guess you would be opposed to a police or firefighter receiving a raise?
no those two groups should get raises. One if the firefighter works 24hr/48off than he shouldn't be moonlighting as a part timer in another community. I loose concideration for that person. I know many others have side businesses. Look at the expensive vehicles in our parking lot someones doing pretty good. Police officers do a job main of us would never want. You ever wonder in a police officers career how many times they are lied too?
Want raises? Let the city eliminate afew unneeded directors. Simple if we have such a professional emplyee base we don't need anywhere near the number of directors we have.
Who gets laid off first? Upper management or people working on the line?
Term what is the problem with any city employee working extra to better his families position . That what they are told is their job when growing up also they have a right when they are off duty to do as they please with their time just like you. So you would hold this against them. I don't think so. Any more than hold it against the general public who work extra jobs or start their own business..
What makes you think those expensive vehicles are the product of over paid city employees? Now days there is such a thing as 2 incomes and many of these spouses make as much as their other half makes. I don't feel your comment is fair and it seems to be directed at those that can afford some of the nicer things in life.
As far as working part time in other communities? That itself says they can afford better as they are working a second job. Therefore, making it a 3 income household. What's your axe to grind about parttime police and fire? With the budgets of small cities they are a great help in keeping overtime in line. Aren't you a big proponent of saving the public money?
7:29 /12:32 Please answer this one question. What is the reasoning behind firefighters working 24on/48off shifts. Is it to make it easy for some of them to work part-time at another house, or to make sure they were rested for their next shift?
Why would you expect one community to pay for you benefits work in another as a part timer. I want them to have the best lives they can. They serve in one of the most honorable professions but somewhere along the line things with most government employment went haywire. They went from dogs to cats. This goes for most politicans also. I can't take credit for this idea but a former Reagan speechwriter came up with this analogy. When you wake up in the morning your dog wants to eat. So you go to the kitchen and fix him/her their meal. The dog thinks this is such a wonderful person who can produce my food out of thin air. They must be a god of some kind?
Now a cat expects the same thing come on its meal time what's the holdup? Here comes my breakfast brought to me by this human. I must be somekind of a god to be treated like this?
The point is I want you and yours to make the most out of life, please don't expect me or others to believe you must receive special considerations. Now if you want to be full time Painesville employees don't pimp yourself out to another community as a part timer. If that's the case you make than the case could be made Painesville should only have part timers as employee's? And save some bucks. Less we forget how overtime was collected a few years ago, One closest to retirement got it all,Why?
So you equate police and fire with cats and dogs? Just remember 9-11 and think again. Why don't you prove the overtime business you talk about. Within the pd and fd there are systems in place to make the overtime equal for everyone. Now if you are accusing a person of changing up that system, don't you think it should be looked at then fixed and take back the illegally earned money? If a person did this to pad their pocket and retirement, they should be held accountable.
6:09 I don't equate anything. One that people like yourself seem to believe your 'special' and the economic realities are not of your concerns. First off Muncipal union employees seem to feel a certain intitlement? Residents would probably be more than willing to pat you rewardingly, there just isn't that much money around.
Prove the overtime business? Is was proven at a council meeting. Want to go through it again, the people that know about this have spoken but if we wany to name names and go through it again maybe we will. Right in front of this fire levy? Tell me you want to rehash this again. Nothing was illegal only that one firefighter who was retiring the next year received most of all the overtime.
Councilman Flock brought it up at a council meeting after asking to see the overtime reports.
9?11 Has to be one of the worse days in American history, on that day firefighters, policemen,military and almost 3,000 civilians perished on that date
less not forget the 4,000 who died fighting wars and assisting people after 9/11. I think anyone of them would be insulted if you used 9/11 to futher a labor cause. Just me.
In your own words - you DID compare and equate them to cats and dogs -"They went from dogs to cats. This goes for most politicans also." And 9-11 was a reminder that they should NOT be compared to cats and dogs and had nothing at all using 9-11 to further a labor cause - you spun my words and missed my point again as usual.
Look I used an analogy about how government workers view themselves. 9/11 Who brought it up? What were you going with that comment,explain. Look if you feel your entitled to something special please let us know what you expect.
Now if I was a Painesville firefighter I might be insulted when city leaders purchase a quarter-century vehicle to do my job, and rightfully so.
It's hard for me to stick up for people who don't for themselves.
Recent comments by certain council people seems that some workers deserve better equipment? I hope you understand your first response managed you upset my whole day. Thanks.
6:54
Term isn't the only one who missed your point. I have no idea what you are getting at. Your post at 6:09 makes no sense (except to you).
Please take the time to write it, and re-read it several times to make sure it makes sense (which hasn't been the case so far), and tell us what point you are making.
BTW, before you respond to this, or to anything Term writes, take the time to understand it completely and realize that it is okay to have differing ideas. Nothing personal, just business.
Thank you
7:49 I guess it's now Un-American for anyone to have a different view of government workers?
If your looking at Painesville as a whole I'm willing to bet the City, School and County workers have the best job packages. What they fail to realize,if they look around many in town are at the low end of the economic scale. Although it's not government workers fault it is a reality.
There's nothing left. Lowest income per capita in the county, how high is Painesvilles unemployment? Who many on public assistance, and food stamps? And out of all this you propose three levies? Because I guess someones entitled to more? All I hear is live in your means? The State of Ohio took the money go after the state. How about getting rid of some of the dead weight, start paying the same share as a person in the private sector?
I believe many are expecting unrealistic results from running around posting door hangers on residents doors. What will happen when some resident oppose these levies. Look what passing those two school levies got you, maybe not you but the guy who left the building.
People trying to be responsible, saving taxpayers money seem to be viewed as criminals. Look at the school bus situation in Euclid, Willoughby, Madison. Part time workers with benefits? including sick days and vacation time?
Sorry it appears some of you screwed yourselves.
Perhaps you need reading glasses-I already explained the comment here it is again for the slow learners...And 9-11 was a reminder that they should NOT be compared to cats and dogs and had nothing at all using 9-11 to further a labor cause - READS with understanding? Not.
Recent comments by certain council people seems that some workers deserve better equipment? I hope you aren't back on that old fire truck kick again? Look, council approved it so I don't think thats what you are talking about. Have you spoken to council, firemen and their boss to see what they really thought. Take a poll, post it and then we will know the truth after its verified. Other than that, what equipment does counil need to update?
12:12 You brought it up. Now you insult readers here a slow learners? You had better hope most don't get smart in a hurry. Oh, it sounded let a labor cause.
12:19 I sat at a council meeting and everyone was told that this 23 year old equipment was just what we needed.
At another meeting two councilman pontificated that our electric department needed the best and newest equipment to do repair work during a thunder storm, lightning storm. Will if there out doing repair work during a storm someone should be fired its against the law Joe, Jim. Read the laws.
Madison Schools privatized their busses several years ago. The company they contracted with got rid of all the drivers with seniority. If that company is providing benefits to its employees, how have the residents screwed themselves? They didn't get to vote on the matter. It was pushed through the board by the previous superintendent.
12:12
This is getting funny as you make less sense with every post.
I can read your ramblings, I just can't understand them.
It must be wonderful in your little world.
Enjoy the perfection that is Painesville today.
Out.
Where is that new/old fire truck anyways?
2:25 word on the street, presently the time machine is down for repairs.
Word on the street? Thats how you get and put your info up? Slow learners meant you, not your following.
6:11 Thanks for clearing that up.
Following? Hardly, maybe just some people who would like to hear the truth sometimes. We sure have enough propaganda around here.
Please deal with facts and knowledge will follow. I asked for a copy of the labor contracts and was told $.05 a page, can't afford that so I asked to inspect, for free, but why not posted on the website for all. Entertaining it was, uniforms allowances, extra pay for having an education, extra pay to holding required certificates, you name it, money is buried there. Shift officers paid to cover patrolmen, at officers rates. Top income earners were all safety forces in the city, how sad. Cry poor at $65,000 a year, and yes, the Humvee in the parking lot. Fire has added part-timers, but what happened in police? Another sick day on patrol and the captain will kick in, at $32.00 an hr. Go to the facts, just the top 10 incomes from the city, you might be surprised, but don't forget the side payments not on the W-2's. Do I smell a scam of first order?
7:37Are you related to Term? So you begrudge someone for driving a Humvee? Let me tell you, while used car shopping some of those are less expensive than a pick-up truck or an SUV. Some were priced around 16 - 20,000.00 so that would be a real deal if one were inclined to want one instead of a new vehicle. How do you know someone wasn't left an inheritance and that's what they bought? You really don't have any right to cast stones against other people that make an honest living. Perhaps you should go after the people on welfare driving a Cadillac? These guys risk their lives everyday and all you can do is complain about the vehicle they drive? Another thing, if a patrolman calls off and an officer has to cover are you saying he should take a paycut for the day he is working for a patrolman? That aint right.
" if a patrolman calls off and an officer has to cover are you saying he should take a paycut for the day he is working for a patrolman? That aint right. "
I would ask if you are saying the City should pay more money, per hour, for exactly the same work?
If this is overtime and he doesn't like to work for what it should cost the City then he should turn the work down.
If he is salaried, then this is part of the reason he gets paid more for his base pay.
After all, the City is also paying the worker who called off, aren't they?
Every place I ever worked had supervisors who were salaried and didn't make any more money when they actually had to do the "everyday" work.
Look can we get an answer here?
What do city workers in dollars and cents contribute to their health care?
You will see who the entitled are by the answer.
10:59 Silence to your question? Seems strange.
Maybe I am confused. If you are the supervisor/officer and I laborer/patrolman call off. You have to work my shift for me, why should you work at my wage? You should be paid at your own earned rate. If the situation were reversed and an employee had to take on supervisor responsibilities shouldn't they get plus pay for more duties?
Now a bigger question to figure out...how many call offs are there and is sick time being abused? If it only happens a handful of times, there shouldn't be a problem. If there is officer fill time constantly that's a problem.
7:47
It really isn't that complicated.
In every place I ever worked, the supervisors were salaried. I assume you know what that means. Because they were paid a fixed rate, per year, when they worked extra hours that is calculated in the amount of their salary over and above what the hourly employees are paid.
IOW, they don't get anything extra because they are already paid more.
If you think about it, the City has budgeted "x" amount of dollars for salaries. The person who called off is still being paid (for not working) and now the City has to pay someone more money to work that shift? Where do you think the extra funds come from? Now, if the person calling off does NOT get paid, the problem pretty much goes away.
Keep in mind that I have no idea how the City contracts with the employees reads but, the money is certainly not unlimited.
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